not O.T. the death of shop class?

www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/13/crawford.htm

"If the motorcycle is thirty years old, from an obscure maker that went out of business twenty years ago, its proclivities are known mostly through lore. It would probably be impossible to do such work in isolation, without access to a collective historical memory; you have to be embedded in a community of mechanic-antiquarians."

"So what advice should one give to a young person? By all means, go to college. In fact, approach college in the spirit of craftsmanship, going deep into liberal arts and sciences. In the summers, learn a manual trade. You’re likely to be less damaged, and quite possibly better paid, as an independent tradesman than as a cubicle-dwelling tender of information systems. To heed such advice would require a certain contrarian streak, as it entails rejecting a life course mapped out by others as obligatory and inevitable."

 

it's the sad truth. i couldn't believe it when my mother told me a few weeks ago that my high school's auto and wood shops had been turned into a computer lab. apparently my graduating class was one of the last that actually had auto and wood classes available, and that was ten years ago.

 

True the shop classes are history. They have some crap here called ROP in CA and the neighborhood kids say they are sent to shops (garages) out in town to clean the shitters and sweep the floor, they didn't learn squat. I went to school up in Maine and they had an excellent votech program there. I guess the educators today think all the kids are going to be lawyers and nurses. Really sad.

 

i love wrenching on cars but shop classes in school are just a waste. most of the time all of the other kids in the class are dumbest ass kids in the world who cant take it in real classes. most of the class the teachers are just trying to keep the class under control and from killing eachother. maby its different where you guys live

i learn so much more about stuff in my and my friends garage's taking stuff apart, figuring out how stuff works. and if you really want to learn a lot of times the community colleges offer classes that are much better then the HS ones

i decided to take all the college prep classes and go for a liberal arts degree or somthing and get good job that i have funds for my projects. plus all of the mechanics i know hate it and wish they would of never done it. working on yourfriends and your cars is fun but changing oil on civics and corollas 40 hours a week is not.

 

Amen!

 

best time of my high school life was shop class and votech. power tools and lifts at our disposal. My teacher retired, and the shop is in the new high school, but STILL exists. trade school is the only way to make a living in the new world. you can't outsource a plumber or electrician.

 

The "private academy" (aka catholic high school) I went to never had a shop class, I guess private academia expected greater things of us (since our parents dropped loads of cash every semester). Maybe had I learned welding at a younger age my welds wouldn't look like stacked goose shit. I guess the last bastian is the Voctechs, lets hope that they don't go the same route as the High Schools.

s.

 

You know what's even better than a shop class? A shop club. That's kinda what we had.

I recommended it to my little brother too (who is 15, and into hot rods and bikes). Get a bunch of young gearheads together, and start a "motor mods" club that is affiliated with the school. As long as things are done responsibly it is a sure go getter. Especially if they talk to the previous shop class instructor that I had and tell him what they are looking to do. That way, you don't end up with the dumb fucks who can't make it in home ec. in the shop.

 

i saw this kid put a board into a table saw backwards...it grabbed it (of course) and then shot it through a solid oak door. thank god nobody got hurt that was 7th grade and in 8th grade we got stupid little stations where we could record a radio segment and then play it back(how to use a tape recorder) or we got to put together a robot arm that was plug and play pieces. it was so depressing i quit taking shop class.

 

autobody and metals where the shit when i was in high school ,it was the only thing i looked foward to everyday, well besides the chicks! shop classes here in omaha started in 7th grade all the wAY to 12th.we had woods,metals,small engines and drafting in middle school,when i got to high school it was body and fender,auto mechanics.i learned alot and icouldn't wait to go home and tell my dad what i did that day.teachers kept telling us we would need to know how to type,i thought BULLSHIT.now here i am doing the one finger studder on the key board, ohwell! still useing the skills i learned in all the different shop classes.wish i could run into some of my old shop teachers and tell em thanks for pointing me in the right direction.DO IT YOURSELF,DO IT RIGHT, later rob SOUTH OMAHA TURDS

 

I disagree. I learned a great deal from my High School Auto Teacher. I use some of that knowledge almost every day MAKING A LIVING. If we need to get rid of anything in the school systems it’s the USELESS “ball” sports. Talk about a waste of time! Football, Basketball, Tennis, Golf…. Schools need to teach REAL WORLD subjects.

I know some of you are going to say ‘but sports programs teach teamwork, athletics, blah blah blah…’ save your breath, I'm not buying it. If that’s the case how did a guy like me, who never was the slightest bit interested in chasing a ball around, learn those things????

 

Techs are in high demand now and it is only getting WORSE. How many graduating High School students today will say "I want to be a mechanic"?
in 5 years there will be a serious shortage in the industry.

 

Hell- I went to a "bad kid school"- and shop class is the only reason I have anything!
I am not exactly a social butterfly ( in fact, I hate most everyone-really)
so your "conventional" job market held about as much interest for me as a swift kick in the nuts. my junior/senior year ( I skipped a year-took summer school for extra credits 4 years in a row) I actually took 3 to 4 hours of shop a day. I was in Vica, and the whole nut-and I actually had a job in the evenings after school at the shop. by the time I graduated high school I was ICAR gold class certified (auto body) and a certified a.s.e. certified Master Mechanic. (and I was 18. so much for your ase standards,right?- it stands for "Ask Someboy Else" ) point being is due to the education I received, I was able to get a good job straight out of high school- one of those things you aren't supposed to be able to do. unless, you happen to have experience, education, and will work for 10 bucks an hour less than a guy 10 years older than you with the same skills...what ever happened to the working class?
are we the only ones left?
what about work ethic? I just don't see it in the eyes of people only a few years younger than me (this is of course a generalization, and I know alot of young dudes who aren't afraid to bust ass for a dollar.) were the fight club statements really true?

 

I too had metals, and woods all through junior high...moved to wyoming and auto 1, (sat in class and was lectured from a bunch of handouts...learned basic stuff...just not alot of fun) My old man and step mom frowned on the tech courses...wanted all college courses...finally in my last year they let me try to get in and it was full. I learned that Kids were having the teach pull their cards early to make sure they would get the class...I wish i could of had those classes again...I completely forgot how to gas weld amoung other things...

So now, I make good money use none of my college course work in my job (you can tell my english sucks) and struggle with my basic skills on the thing i actually like to do.

I push my kid into the shop classes...

 

What a coincidence this thread is. Last night my wife and I went to our sons "back to school night" at the same HS I graduated from in '80. Same auto shop teacher since '75 announces he's retiring at the end of the school year and the outlook for another instructor and the auto program overall is bleak. As mentioned previously in this thread, industrial arts classes are all but gone.

We used to have eight industrial arts classes, now there are two and one of those is in jeopardy.

Anybody out there interested in a shop teachers job?

 

I graduated in 1974 and our auto shop and teacher was great. Auto shop in 11th grade was a 1 hour class and then the best from that class got to take the 2 hour class in their senior year. Our teacher was really a car guy and followed drag racing, and we actually got to work on our own cars in class.
A freind of mine and I put a 289 in his 62 Falcon, didn't know what we were doing but we got it done and had a blast, I guess those days are long gone...

 

My autobody class was the only reason I went to school..........otherwise I would not have graduated..........I owe it and my teacher Mr. Ron Stevens a hell of alot !!!!...........Littleman

 

I agree 100% with what Loudpedal said.

I used to be a Shop teacher. Many of you know my tale of woe. It was a constant struggle to keep my Auto Body classes, even though enrollment was high. As soon as I left, the very next day in fact, they axed the Auto Body. All the kids who were in it now had study hall instead. My "replacment" had zero automotive experience too, so even my mechanics classes suffered.I won't be suprised if Auto is no longer around in this district in a few years.

You want to help? Go to your school board meetings as parents, community members, etc and let them know how much Shop classes have helped you get where you are. Point out their importance to people like us. Get them to see that cutting Shop isn't the answer.

 

I really don't understand the world. In our area the steady closure of shop classes has been on going for years. When I was in high school 15 years ago the guidance councillors only had two ways to look at the students the dumb kids worked on the farm or got an apprenticeship and everyone else went to college. They had the mentallity that trades people were bottom feeders. Fast forward to today and everyone is screaming for tradespeople and are paying top dollar to get them We have a large powerplant here and the average age of the tradesmen is 49. They are freaking out because there aren't enough apprentices in the pool to be able to fill the jobs once all of these guys retire.
Even with these companies running job fairs and the unions trying to show kids that good tradespeople make top dollar, the schools are still closing the tech shops. I just don't get it.

 

RIGHT ON MAN ,f@#k the jocks,STONERS RULE !!! LATER ROB south omha turds

 

The man who works recognizes his own product in the World that has actually been transformed by his work: he recognizes himself in it, he sees in it his own human reality, in it he discovers and reveals to others the objective reality of his humanity, of the originally abstract and purely subjective idea he has of himself.

genius!

 

they've been saying that for about 15 years. around here low skill level/low pay techs are in high demend, shops don't want to pay a skilled tech when they can get 3 for the same price as one. the head tech can translate to the other ones while he works and if you don't like it there's about 10 others waiting to take your place.......as long as the customers area (waiting room) is new and high tech (read expensive) looking everything is good, what the customer doesn't know won't hurt them.

 

And yet people wonder why the kids at Jiffy Lube strip drain plugs...

I'll see if I can get Hawkeye to chime in on this. He's currently going to school to become a Shop teacher.

 

graduating engineers would be a helluva alot more useful if they actually knew how the parts they're designing were going to be made. When I worked in the engineering machine shop, half my time was spent redesigning other students parts so they could actually be machinable... most of these were masters students. They should know the limitations of a mill, a lathe, casting, etc. and the relative time and cost of everything so the can make cost effective items. At least when I get my engineering degree I'll have way better job possibilities by knowing how to weld and run a CNC mill.

There is already a shortage of CNC machinists... and where do you go to school to learn that?

 

My trade is a little different, I was a carpenter, went through high school shop class now retired from the carpenters union after 50 some years. A trade is something they can't take away from you. In the early 50s our shop class was three weeks of school then three weeks of shop, after you were 16 an your grades were good enough you could get a job in your trade and get hands on experence, how times have changed. Got my hot rod skills by working with my hands and a lot of good hot rod buddys. My high school days were 50-53.

 

At my high school if ain't sports related it dosen't even exists except when a teachers car breaks down or they need something welded. Heck, last I won the region auto body competition and went to state competition all I got at school was my name anounced with the schools news the next morning, if it was basketball or football we would have probably got out school early. I agree with Loudpedal ball sports don't tech a thing that people will use after school. I've got friends that play sports that prob don't even know how to change a flat tire they'd have to call their parents or someone who could...

But I have a fealing our shop class's will finally fade away. Most students that take them take them just to where they can get out of a classroom and goof off. Then the teacher has to keep an eye on them and can't teach the ones who actually want to learn something. Thats the way it is in my metals class right now.....

 

The metals shop at the high school I went to had a foundry, a welding/fab area, and a pretty decent machine shop. It really got my feet wet in a lot of areas that I wouldn't have had exposure to otherwise. I ended up taking all of the offered classes in the metals area and decided to go to college to become a tool and die maker. Ten years later, I'm still a machinist/tool maker, and I love it. If I wouldn't have been introduced to it at the high school level, I really don't know what I would have chosen for a career. I can't really imagine doing anything else.

-Brian-

 

Damn, I forgot about those old times!!! Learned how to run a lathe, cast metal (!), sharpen a drill, hone a cylinder, grind a valve, torch weld, and I even learned a little math! Can you imagine a modern school board allowing its children to cast molten metal? use a cutting torch? Put a timing light down next to a fan blade? (I've still got scars from that lesson)

 

And people wonder why China is kicking our @ss in industry. If we don't keep educating the new generation of kids, we're just going to keep falling further behind.

-Brian-

 

Something else not mentioned here is the number of "required classes" kids have to take now--xx credits of science, xx credits of social studies, etc. That's all good and important stuff, but they crowd out the elective classes if you don't go to a vo-tech. I guess that most people who make class requirement laws didn't take shop (or home ec or building trades or whatever). My father is a shop teacher, and he's seen programs (and his job) get eliminated over and over again, for that reason and budget. When he started in the early 70's, there were three shops. He eventaully taught there again, and when he got done, he was the only teacher, and they didn't replace him. THere were periods in there when there was no shop at all. The rooms are a bus garage now, and all the tools "disappeared." At the end, he was even making up classes that were half shop/ half "art" (like building your own camera or teaching drafting as an architecture class) just so that kids could sign up for it to meet their requirements for mandatory classes. It's pretty sad--it's a blue collar town, where less than half the kids go on to college/university. What do the other 50% do, without any training? Walmart cashier? Pretty sad, if somebody's got the aptitude to learn a trade, but his "required education" failed him.

Flexicoker makes a good point too--so many of the engineers I work with are an absolute hazard in the shop, and they design stupid things. I watched one guy burn up a drill press and a drill motor inside of 15 minutes. More engineers need to spin wrenches and learn how to run a mill. But if they're on a college-prep track in high school, they may never be exposed to it, because they don't have time to take the classes.