Customs 53 customline has lost OD

I can't seem to figure out how to get into the social forums specific to the Ford flatheads but I figured maybe someone here had some input.
We've been enjoying the 53 all summer long and have had mosty trouble free miles in her with the exception of some odd idling issues here and there that are still yet to be resolved but 2 weeks ago we were OTW from a vintage car drive in movie and we were cruising in OD and BOOM the RPMs shot through the roof and OD was gone. Was making a horrible whirring noise. I quickly disengaged the OD handle and it was fine with the exception of not having OD. We've driven several times and it's completely fine otherwise. I've looked over digrams of the OD and it looks pretty simple but I didn't know if anyone had some input.
Of course here are pictures for your enjoyment.

Me and the kid getting lunch after a wedding


The veiws from the driver seat at the drive in.


Perfect spot for the speaker

 

IMHO "...horrible whirring noise" = pull the transmission and break it down for full inspection I have several questions...
How long have you had the overdrive in the car?
Did you install it?
Do you have it set up with the Ford factory kick down?
Have you tested the relay?

Others will be along with help. The Borg-Warner OD's are a hobby of mine, I wish I lived closer to you.

 

It's factory OD so it's been in forever. So no I didn't install it.
Yes it has the under pedal kick down switch, like I said it's the factory overdrive so it has everything the factory system came with. I have not yet tested the relay. The break down came at a bad time because I was rebuilding part of the shop so right now I'm in a race to get the shop back together before cold weather because I have a long list of work to do in the car so the OD is on top of the list now. The whirring noise is only if you engage the hand pull inside the car and it only starts once you've exceeded the governor speed. All the fluids were replaced at the beginning of the year and I went through the 6v wiring and fixed bad connections and such to make sure everything was working. This winter one of the tasks is switching the car over to 12v and basically rewiring the entire car.

If you have any resources for breakdowns on that transmission I'd appreciate it. I've not found much information online. I've broken down transmissions before but it's helpful to have parts lists and diagrams.

 

Get a 52-54 Ford shop manual, available on line. It has a large section on the transmission as well as all of the overdrive unit components. I find it invaluable for my 53.

 

I'm assuming you have the 'T' handle to work the overdrive. I've come to the personal understanding from having one of these OD's in my truck that it is essentially two transmissions. When the handle is IN, it is overdrive capable, when the handle is pulled OUT, it is a regular three speed with engine braking.
Check your 'T' handle for FULL movement. At rest, pushed into the dash the cable at the transmission should push the arm completely to it's resting stop.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/20...org-warners-r-10r-11-overdrive-transmissions/

http://forums.devestechnet.com/foru...-driveline-tech/45-borg-r10-overdrive-central

 

Yes that's exactly what I have. That is something I'll check.

 

The internals of the OD unit are pretty robust. In addition to the switch under the accelerator, there is a large fuse on the firewall and wiring down to the solenoid at the unit. The solenoid may have gone bad.

 

"The whirring noise is only if you engage the hand pull inside the car and it only starts once you've exceeded the governor speed."

This statement of yours bothers me. For this transmissions health I have read from a few sources to NOT engage meaning DO NOT PULL OUT THE T HANDLE while the car is in motion. Make a decision which of your two choices you need and drive, Overdrive OR Regular 3 speed. For instance, I use regular three speed in my truck when hauling heavy loads and want to employ engine braking via the transmission engagement. I also use Regular 3 speed for anyone driving my truck as I feel that freewheeling would be much too disconcerting.

 

I do not operate the handle while in motion. I read the manual on operation before using the OD. It's a club coupe and with the low rear end gears that came in the OD cars it's pretty much a 50mph car without it so it stays in OD permenatly. Until of course the OD stopped working.

 

This. Is possible and the electronics. Are on the list of things to check. But the noise it makes would lead me to believe that it's not a simple electronic failure.

 

Fordbarn.com. You can get a lot of good information there.

 

Here’s a link to the originals BW manual for the o/d. Might be useful

http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/TechData/BWOverdriveManual.pdf

You’re probably going to need parts, Mac at VanPelt sales is the go to guy.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/

 

Hopefully you refilled the OD unit separately when you changed the gear oil. That's a peculiarity of the BW OD; there's a single trans drain, but two fill points. You fill the main trans first, then the OD unit. The gear oil doesn't 'migrate' into the OD unit from the trans and failure to fill it separately will lead to damage.

With that said, it sounds like a bad overrunning clutch in the OD unit. This is the part that allows the car to 'coast' when the load is removed. There's some rollers in there that when power is applied, they 'wedge' against the clutch drum and lock the output shaft to the main shaft. If those rollers are worn below a minimum diameter, it won't lock up. When you manually disengage the OD, the shift pawl locks the drum bypassing the clutch.

 

Squirrel had a similar o/d problem in the Edsel Adventure. Search that post, there’s a couple pictures at the end. The manual I linked above shows the parts, etc Crazy Steve mentioned. Don’t be afraid to tear it apart, I did my first one in 1967 when I was 17 years old, and got it back together just fine. Use heavy grease or a rubber band to hold the rollers bearings in on reassembly. It’s actually simpler in person than the manual makes it look.

 

I did not know that, oddly though the fluid I drained out was less than what the manual called for. Now I'm ashamed I didn't catch that first and hope I didn't really kill something.

 

Crazy Steve is correct about the filling and that is what I have done in refilling after an oil change or a rebuild. BUT, they are not two separate voids with their own oil supply, they have passage between the two. That said, if you didn't fill both sides initially, by the time the oil migrated to the OD side there would be gears in action with no lubrication. I cite as reference to my above statement, Borg Warner Overdrive Service Manual page 15, Section 40, Lubrication section a.
"The transmission and overdrive unit are connected with oil passages so the same oil is used for both." Then the manual goes on to say as Steve noted above to fill the Overdrive unit first till the oil runs out, then the main transmission again till the oil runs out.

 

@Crazy Steve says to fill main trans first, manual says overdrive first. Which is correct???

 

Remember, the OD drains into the main trans, how can you fill it if it's draining away into an empty main case?

 

So is @Cosmo49 misunderstanding what you say?
I'm not disputing but still confused!

 

I've had several of these overdrives and have rebuilt five of them and have over 120k miles on a Muncie 319, and now a 1969 Saginaw/Borg-Warner all synchro 3sp+od. In my experience it doesn't matter which side you do first as the 90 weight that I use just doesn't move fast enough. I've worried before about filling the od first and it draining into the main transmission but every time I go back to check the od port the oil starts to weep out so it didn't lose enough that it mattered. Maybe they decided to instruct 'Do OD Side First' because they didn't want us to forget.

 

Possibly, Thanks

 

If it dropped out of OD and made a whirring noise, that doesn't sound good. It sounds like an internal mechanical problem. If it was electrical, you would still have drive through the overrunning clutch just like you do before the sift into OD. I would check the fuse, but I think your problem is mechanical. When you go to direct drive via the OD cable, you lock up the planetary gear set.

The more I think about it, the whirring noise could be the fact that you are driving through the overrunning clutch. When driving through the overrunning clutch you have no engine braking. If you let up on the throttle, the engine goes to idle and the car just coasts. If that's your symptom, it is possible that you have an electrical problem. It's hard to diagnose if I can't see and touch the car.

 

I'm repeating what I was told by both a Ford mechanic and the guy that used to sell them to me when I blew one up. They both stressed that failure to fill the OD by itself would very likely lead to damage. And yes, they don't suffer abuse well unless you have the HD T85/R11...

Maybe the GM versions were different.

 

I will say that it wasn't driven right away after filling the OD it sat for a few weeks really before it really went more than a mile.
Either way I still mess that part up. This winter it's going to come out.

 

Let's see some pictures.
1) Picture: Lockout lever on transmission fully engaged on the side of the transmission.
2) Picture: Shift Rail Lockout Switch (if you have one)
3) Check all wiring
4) Read : Borg Warner Overdrive Service Manual, Page 9, Section B, Mechanical Faults, Paragraph 22. a. and b.

 

We recommend (on filling an empty overdrive transmission) to prefill the overdrive side first with at least half a quart of gear oil. Replace the filler plug there and then fill the rest of the transmission through the filler plug on the side of the gearbox case. There are definitely openings between the front and back cases of the Borg Warner transmissions so the gear oil will level out between the two. I always advise our customers to do the filling of the transmission while it’s outside of the vehicle, sitting on a level floor. Let it sit at room temperature for awhile (overnight is good) and recheck the oil level…..at the main filler plug on the front case. Chances are it will need a bit more oil. From this point on, do your oil checking and topping off through this front plug.

The whirring sound does not sound good…..

 

I will have to find the Borg Warner service manual. I have the Ford service manual in my cart.
I plan to check all those things as soon as I get it into my shop.

 

Im going to be changing the gear oil in my 51 shoebox, it has overdrive. I don't wanna screw the pooch on this and I'm not mechanically inclined. I'm wondering if you could tell me where the oil plug is for the overdrive ? I'm assuming its the plug on the piece closest to the drive shaft as I can clearly see the other filler plug on the main part of the transmission. Are both plugs on the passenger side of the transmission? Do you guys use a pump for this type of job? It's really tight down there and don't see any other way to get that oil in.

 

Check your wiring regardless if you have damaged the transmission. Reproduction harnesses are cheap and easy to install, and may also take care of lots of old wiring problems. A new harness will have new wires and ends with much better continuity.
The under pedal kickdown switch gets corroded over the years and is a frequent problem--along with the wiring.
I would bet someone (possibly close by) may have a good used transmission to replace the one you have, if it's bad. I think I still have a spare 54 Ford 3 speed OD in my shed.