Hot Rods How Difficult & Expensive to Replace Valve Guides at Home? Do a Valve Job?

Personally, I prefer to push past my limits. Bites me on the ass at times, but can also be very rewarding.

 

Bingo. There's a cumulative effect and the knowledge gained is often helpful in ways that I did not envision.

 

I'd suggest you get a seat grinder kit rather than seat cutters. The seat is an integral part of the head on those heads, but the seat area is induction hardened. Any cutter tends to get more difficult to use successfully as the material its cutting gets harder. If you get the least bit of chatter in a cut, the only way to get rid of it is to grind it out else you risk carrying the cut too deep in an attempt to cut it out . in reality, no one who's honest will tell you a cut seat is better than a ground seat, and all the marketing is directed toward the fact that cutters are faster than a seat grinder. That's true, but a grinder makes it very simple to control both the width and the position of the seat surface.

We did a valve job on an employee's Ford diesel a number of years ago. 1990 model IIRC. I'm thinking it had an odd seat angle on one or maybe both valves. Something like 37 or 37.5 degrees rather than the usual 45. With a grinder, it's a simple matter to set the dresser to whatever angle you want and dress the stone accordingly. Using cutters, the same angle would require the purchase of a cutter with that angle if such cutter is available. about 3/4 of my own valve experience is on heavy duty diesels that typically have inserted stellite seats. Honestly, I'd have to see a cutter cut a seat into one of those ultra mean bastards to believe it would cut it.

Just my opinion, but I think you'd find a seat grinding setup far more versatile and controllable as well as producing a finish that a cutter just can't match.

 

Really appreciate you posting this; can't beat the voice of experience.

The exhaust valve is indeed 37 or 37.5, and getting set up to cut these is going to be fairly expensive. I like the idea of having something more versatile.

I have been looking at seat grinder setups. I have found several interesting kits for less than $1,000, mostly on FB Marketplace, but not seeing anything in my immediate area. Will continue to search.

 

When grinding seats do not press down let the weight of the stone and holder do the cutting

 

Why can't you just polish the stems of the valves to gain clearance?

 

That's an option as well, but they need a fair amount of material taken off -- current clearance on a few is .0005" and I really need to get to .003" so I'd have to remove .0025". I think I'm better off reaming out the guides to the correct size and then honing. I have the reamer and hones on the way now.

Thanks

 

What people seem to missing here is the bronze guide liner kits are absolutely meant to be use with a hand drill, I have done a ton and we have the equipment to replace thick wall guides and valve seats.

 

I don’t think anyone has missed that. The OP has done his math and realized if he buys 2 reams he can get his clearance and not have to buy new valves. If he uses guid liners he’d have to buy all new stock diameter valves.

 

Sure, people are talking about ruining a set of heads trying to ream them with hand tools, my point is that is exactly the process for guide liners…

 

Got it. I felt you were talking about people not agreeing with him using the what he has.
And for what it’s worth I was in the business for quite awhile and have installed thousands of liners and ground thousands of seats so I get it. And same as you do have the equipment to install thick wall guides.

 

Now that I'm searching for a valve seat grinder setup, is there any difference between the different ones? I see plenty from Sioux, Black and Decker, Thor, Quickway, etc, and most of them have a fair bit of stones, pilots, etc. However, is there an industry standard? Or do some of these use bits that don't interchange?

Bottom line -- I'm worried that I'm going to spend $500+ for a grinder setup and not be able to find critical items.

As an example, here's one on eBay - Black & Decker Vibro-Centric Valve Seat Grinder Tool Kit W Stones Dresser Etc | eBay - I'd rather not spend that much, but I could if needed.

Thanks

 

Well you must have seen something on You Tube. I guess my question is going to be how will you cut the seats and keep them guide-centric? I suppose that it could be done on a drill press and the proper quill/seat cutter, but it will not be accurate, the head on most drill presses wanders too much.

Sorry old machinists have a hard time doing things without the proper tools.

 

Neway 1990's valve seat cutters - YouTube

 

I'll send you a PM re seat grinder. I have one I'll probably never use again.

 

Thanks!

 

Someone posted a video of a guy who did that with a 235 head as I recall.
Regarding the seat kit you linked, does it have stones that will have the angles you need? All the stones I have are 45 degrees, if memory serves.
I picked up a valve refacer years ago, also came with a set of stones/pilots, and two “drills” and associated stuff at a local estate sale for crazy cheap $$. Before that I’d bought off eBay two different sets of hand seat cutters with some pilots as well.
The hand cutters are steel, 45 degree and a 70? I think degree cutter. There’s also a “rough cutter” for each size.
Certainly not as quick as a stone in motor, but work just fine for what Ive used them for.
Someday(probably not) I’ll get a new Diamond tip and learn to dress my stones.
As far as finding a used deal on the valve refacer, you want to make sure it fully adjustable for all degrees, mine has “hard stops” and located at 3 angles. I’ve only used the 45, I’d have to look at it to recall the other two, but I know it’s not 37 like you’d need. That’s why I said make sure it’s fully adjustable.

 

If you do get a seat grinder, be gentle when dressing the stones. It's quite aggravating to lose the diamond tip.

 

Therein lies the problem. I need 37.5 degrees and I'm unable to find any stones in that angle. I might be back to using the Neway style cutter; they have verified that they have what I need.

Thanks

 

That won’t be a problem. As long as you have a stone dresser you can make the angle what ever you want. I have a Sioux set up and and have done many of the same heads you are working on. I haven’t had to buy stones in a long time but they did offer a blank stone.

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I appreciate it.

 

Yes,.a seat grinder will generally come with an adjustable stand, that allows you to dress your stones to the angles you will need. Usually, for a 3 angle valve job, you will need 6 stones, due to the differing diameters between intake and exhaust seats, and to interference with the combustion chamber in the areas you would unshroud the valve. With some shopping, you might find a seat grinder and a valve grinder sold as a set, for around $500.00.

 

That's what I have found - $500 will get you a pretty good setup. The problem is that most of the ones that I'm finding on FB Marketplace are several hours away.

Thanks

 

Did I also mention the versatility factor? If you're next project is a Buick nailhead or 318 poly you are good to go. I won't say you will get rich doing work for your friends and neighbors, but if you like to tinker with your own stuff...

 

Yeah, that's a big plus. I currently have cars with SBC, FE Ford, Ford Windsor, AMC V8, Pontiac V8, etc.

 

and the large valve FoRD FE and Pontiac heads use a 30 degree intake seat...

 

I have acquired a SIOUX seat grinder, and a valve grinder from a friend. I will try it out on when I find a nice set of castings with good guides.

Side Note: In large diesel space, many use what us called precision seats, no grinding valves, or seats on new production.

 

You can buy most pieces for a Sioux You always have to buy extra pieces and extra pilots to fit other engines unles you are only working on one style and size of engine.

Plus they do wear if you use them a lot.

The basic seat grinders aren't all that expensive usually but the price on used Valve grinding equipment has gone though the roof around this area. I've had this SnapOn unit on my FB market place watch list for a while for what ever reason. 2K is a lot of money for what it appears that he has. (20+) Marketplace - Snapon Valve Grinder And Seat Surfacer | Facebook

That is the valve grinder an hard seat grinder/surfacer. This guys on Ebay has a bare minimum seat grinder set with just a couple of stone holders, the motor and the stone dresser. The Diamond nib in those stone dressers is Cheaper on Amazon now than what I paid for them in the School autoshop 35 years ago and unless you know what you are doing and pay attention it is easy to knock the diamond out of one. Diamond Dresser 3/8" x 24 TPI Diamond Dresser Tip for Sioux Valve Grinders and Valve Seat Grinder Stone Dressers: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific They were over 30 bucks through the local parts house 35 years ago. They actually have a pretty good deal on the pink stones for the Sioux. That should keep most guys in stones for a long time SIOUX VALVE SEAT PINK GRINDING WHEELS SET 24 PCS STONE HOLDER STAR DRIVE 11/16" - - Amazon.com That gets back to my saying that you can find parts for the old Sioux pretty readily though.

I used to use my buddy's old hard seat grinder and valve grinder but his family sold it too cheap before I could decide if I wanted it or not. I used it more than he did the last few years he had it. I just don't have a place to put it.

Side story, a shop I worked in doing engine and head swaps in the early 90's after they closed the auto mechanics program at school was a cylinder head rebuilding shop and a bit of a gypo one in some ways. They would drill out every head and put in bronze guides and then rather than get new valves they turned the stems down undersize on a stem grinder. That really pissed somone who worked on those heads later off as the stems and guides were undersize and you couldn't just run to the parts house and get a new valve or two and dress them up and go again. Same thing as your heads in the other direction. Rather than installing standard guides and going with standard stems the guy went oversize on the guides and sold the customer new valves with oversize stems. Then the next guy was screwed as you well know.

 

Wow, thx for the references, parts are cheap for Sioux. I have the cabinet from a previous trade. My friends father took care of this kit, so I will too. The valve facing tool is very heavy, well made

 

I’ve read through the Automotive machining book and will second that.
For ten bucks you can’t beat the info.