My mind was blown as well, believe me! This whole adventure has been one surprise after another, from the day the frame arrived. As I and others have said before, it's nearly impossible to start with something like a frame at today and try to trace it backwards with no leads. A lot of things just worked out such that I got really lucky on a few things, and here we are! It's been fun, as I really enjoy research and early race cars!
Lucius, The hydrogen embrittlement topic was discussed back on page 1. These things weren't show cars by any means, and took a hell of a beating week after week, and there was a ton of plated parts on race cars, so they must have had a pretty good handle on things back then, or just got lucky a bunch! In any event, I'm aware of the possibility.
Fascinating story. Race car archeology at its best. Knowing that the tail probably came off that set of rails would keep me awake at night trying to figure out how to make a deal for them. Great job
Dave! You've nailed it perfectly here. I submitted a proposal to the museum with what I felt was a good offer to buy the tail. The museum board voted to reject my offer. I can only try again in the future, perhaps once I'm further along with the project. I'm certain that tail spent its entire racing life on my frame, and in fact, the headrest tail on the restored car actually was at least mounted on my frame initially, as I've found pictures of that combination.
Here's an article about how the car ended up att the museum. https://www.lemarssentinel.com/story/2611832.html
I had a pair of Essex rails with stiffener sides, sadly they 'disappeared' one weekend when we were at the drags. Only thing stolen, tools and equipment untouched. Lock on shop cut with a disc. Bastards.
Thanks! Lmao, thanks! The museum folks I dealt with were super nice, they basically left me alone with the car for 2 days. Nope, just said that it took a lot of fundraising, effort, and money to acquire the car and parts and that they didn't want to sell any of it. Yep, that's pretty much the story. It's somewhat odd that in that article they incorrectly state that the car in question is the one that won the championship in '47 and '48, as that car, with minor changes, actually won the IMCA Championship in '46, '47, and '48. The signage with the car at the museum claims '38, '46, '47, and '48, which is also technically incorrect, though as anyone into early race cars knows, those lines get very blurry very quickly. With all of the material I've been fortunate to have access to, I can pretty much nail down month by month or better most of the changes made to the car. That's a bummer, Essex rails ain't getting any easier to find! Almost sounds like they were just after those rails! The Essex frame I've got came out from under a really complete, very original, very nice 4 door sedan that was being rodded.
They didn't offer to buy your rails from you at all?? It would seem that the only 'right' thing to do is to re-unite those parts. As you say perhaps when you have 'proved' to them that you are serious about the project they may change their mind...
Just wondering if there is a Swap Meet program/list of vendors from Hershey 2001. There was a pair of chrome rails in the swamp called the Yellow Field, may have been in end spots of a row close to the street. If you have names to match to old owners this may add to their history.
Sorry to hear this. The tail will probably languish in dust hidden away in storage for no one to see it. You are trying to preserve history too. You would think they would be happy with a complete car for display and help you bring another part of it's history back to life.
They asked if I'd be interested in donating them, and I get that, but they have no desire or ability to put a car together, and that in my opinion is the only option. Bob, I reached out to the place I bought them from again with a cash offer for information. Maybe it'll shake something loose. I'm not sure about old Hershey vendor lists, they may be available somewhere. If I can track one down, I may get with you to pinpoint the location. I tried to emphasize the importance of the history and reuniting these parts in my proposal, but it didn't convince them. We'll see what the future holds.
Of course..."we won't sell the parts we're not using, but you should donate the parts you have, so we can not use them either..." Hopefully, they see the light. Those parts deserve to be reunited and in possession of someone that respects the history and will bring it back.
Does anyone think an independent letter campaign by hambers would help? I could certainly annoy them for awhile till they cave. Lol Also I kinda wonder if their is some sort of rules the meusum had that prevented them from selling the parts....just speculation.
I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I'm not sure it would help. It might just annoy them, and I don't want to do that either. They were incredibly nice and helpful while I was there, they're just not necessarily car people, much less racecar people. They might not understand that it would mean allowing the early version of the car to exist more properly again.
In general I find the "Early" version of a race car to look the best. Could you post your best before and after the frame swap car photos? The early grille is just beautiful, who has that now?
Bob, here's a quick recap on the timeline of the car. No idea if the either of the first 3 noses still exist. I'm assuming they're long gone, but I thought the same about the flat tail, so anything's possible... 1936: Brand new car fresh out of Curly Wetteroth's California shop and back in Iowa. 255 Offy, transverse mounted friction shocks 1937: Shocks moved to frame mounting, otherwise pretty much identical 1938: New oval grille, 318 Offy, new exhaust. Very few other changes through 1941 Next two pictures I believe to be 1942, but can't say for sure. They're the only pictures I've found of the frame I've got with the headrest tail and third nose on it. Next up is '46, basically identical body wise to the previous two pictures, but on the new frame. And the fourth and final nose with the now-reinforced second frame in 1948-51.
Thanks! I met him at a Vintage meet in Davenport Iowa in the early 1970's, had him autograph my Jack Fox INDY 500 book. Can't remember if he said he tried to qualify or not. Merry Christmas. Bob
I totally agree. That would be the worst. Maybe they'll change they're mind at a future date? Perhaps if you had a rolling chassis or something? Who knows?....any how.... This is really cool regardless of outcome.
Hey, Carter; Iffen you're still on good terms w/them, you may as well use them to get all the info, measurements, pics, list-of-parts-they-have-for those rails you can. & start assembling the pieces you find. Identical if possible, swap those out iffen originals can ever be located. Sometimes once an old racer starts coming alive, folks will help, 1st w/(past - & maybe current) info, leading to some orig parts. Never worked for me, but I've read & heard about it working for others. Hopefully, for you. Maybe - if you could leave the frame & started-restoration at the museum safely & only on very temp-loan, alongside the current racecar, w/a card explaining what is happening, you'll get more info? IDK ??? Hope this comes together for you, I like the big cars & tail-jobs. Marcus...
Bob, Emory never tried for Indy, said that racing is what put food on the table and taking time off from the IMCA circuit, his bread and butter, didn't make sense to him. Thanks, hopefully I can eventually convince them... Marcus, I took a ton of pictures and took measurements while I was there. I'm sure I'll be back there again at some point. I like your idea about displaying the project there at some point. Most of Collins' racing stuff went to a family member who helped take care of Irene after Emory passed. Stuff like his trophies, racing shirt, helmet, goggles, etc are all already at the museum.
The Jalopy Journal
