Howdy, I would greatly appreciate getting some guidance on selecting suspension parts/pieces for my 34 coupe project. I really have no idea how to determine if an old I-beam axle can be salvaged or if its better to purchase something new. Here's what I'd like to do: Front: split bones, heavy dropped I beam, leaf spring with shocks - not friction shocks Rear: I'd love a quick change but will probably need to go with a 9" and a triangulated 4 bar Steering: I'm lucky and found a 392 hemi so I'm leaning towards cowl steering because I'd assume a frame mounted box + headers on the hemi won't leave too much room...??.. Brakes: hidden disc like the Kinmont or something and drum on the back. Kind of thinking this would be the splurge $$$ and get them fancy brakes!!! This purchase will happen sometime down the road and I would like to start with spindles and drums up front until I save the money.... I really admire the look and what would seem like drivability of the cars Rolling Bones puts out but didn't want to fan-boy call them and pester them!! Here's my parts:
If dragrace only,its good with roof that low.. Not good if you plan on driving on the street,u can't see other cars or lights,an zip for head room . Hemi is cool,don't copy rolling bones,they build in way to many mistakes,big names don't always used good engineering. Take the time to read up,it saves time later.Don't get trendy copy cat of new BS that never was.
As Mr. Barlow stated, don't follow bad engineering. A good header builder can get headers around a properly placed steering box. A good F100 box for side steering would work just fine. That heavy chop will be difficult to drive on the street like he said.
If you use an aftermarket axle make sure it is a forged one..... And I have a blown hemi in my 34 with a Vega steering box.....
You need to answer one question.... What do you want the car to be once it is together? Long Haul cruiser, Stop light-to-stop light rocket, cruise night poser, drag car, etc. Once you have that figured out, start laying out the pieces that will best fit your vision, and get rid of the rest. As far as the old axle is concerned, it is probably fine. The king pin wear will most likely be the largest issue, and will determine what kind of machine work needs to be done. If you are really paranoid, have it magna-fluxed to check for any hidden cracks.
I also have a blown Hemi in my 32 with Vega steering. Easy to drive and no problems. CE forged dropped I beam front axle.
Rolling Bones is a good profile. I love a heavy Chop, you must also. We can get used to anything. Go to Car events, find things you like and ask the car owner about it. Most guys will tell you if they wished they had done things differently, listen to them. Looks aren't everything but they help. I'm also a Hemi Freek and a retired builder. Steering must work right no matter what steering box you decide on. I've lost track of how many sets of custom headers I've built. I'm not a fan of Cowel Steering and would be the last thing I would choose. Personally, I choose Vega or F-100 and mount it where it works right and make everything else fit around them. Good luck on your quest.
Another vote for a Vega-type cross steer setup. Shouldn't have a problem steering around the headers and locating the box up by the motor mount. With that heavy engine up front, the cross steer will help make the steering a little easier too.
I was just trolling through my laptop and found this old photo of construction of my A Roadster. It runs a 40 Ford cross steer unit, and the Headers are under construction to clear the steering. Nothing fancy there but necessary none the less.
This local Hemi car has a RHD Vega cross style box with 'faux' cowl steering, it uses a braced support bearing for pitman arm. Appears for all intents and purposes to be cowl steer push/pull.
Go with an Original ford axle that's been dropped. There are several guys out there that can do it for you and if you don't have one they probably already have one dropped that they will sell you. @thunderbirdesq is who I would recommend going with Andy know his stuff and really dials in the profile of every axle he drops. Cowl steering is fine if set up properly, but can be a real bear if not, causing all types of issues. An F1, F100 or Vega steering box will work just fine and you will have little issues with clearance. you build the chassis with all the steering and major components first, then you build the exhaust to work around all that. That being said, part of setting up all this is making sure that you are comfortable and can see as good as you can out of the car, column angle is a part of this which needs to be put into consideration if using an F1 or F100 box and column set up, and that is dependent on seat height, working with your field of vision out the windshield and door. Set the seat up to where you can see the best and are comfortable, then set up the steering box (if using a F1 or F100 box with the column built in) as column angle will change the location of the steering box bolts on the frame rail. if using a Vega box, its all connected with U Joints and double d shaft so column angle can be made more to suit the driver position and the motor placement. For rear suspension, I would steer away from the triangulated 4 link. those almost always go with coil overs which will kill the look the car with a hemi and a Rolling Bones style to it. Go with a Transverse leaf and ladder bars. I have cars with both, triangulated 4 link and coil overs, and ladder bars and transverse leaf spring, and honestly the ladder bars and leaf spring ride a 1000 times better and hook up better in spirited driving. I would look at R-Jays Speed Shop for the ladder bar set up, I have used 2 sets from them and they are top notch (best out there as far as I'm concerned) and cost less than the competitors. Study pictures of 33 34 frames being built. it will give you lots of Ideas, Stay away from rear coil overs, thats for 80's street rods. you have a good sounding plan. they key with any build like this is to make the plan and stick to it. Changing things up in the middle will stop you dead in your tracks every time.
Ken and Keith of the Rolling Bones are great guys with a proven blueprint for their style. They make cowl steering work. They drive their cars HARD and put THOUSANDS of miles on them. Spend some time searching here, dig into their IG. Drop them a line. Catch them on their annual Banzai trip to Bonneville next year and see the cars in action. They are always encouraging.
First of all, read this: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cowl-steering-just-stop.1101046/ There is no reason a triangulated 4-link can't work with a transverse leaf. Just set the spring up with substantially vertical shackles, so you don't establish an instant centre which conflicts with the 4-link's roll centre. Be sure you understand the geometric principles behind that style of axle location.
The Bones guys are seriously some of the Nicest guys, Ken and Keith are just good guys. Having run down the road with them to the salt there stuff is proven, and works like a Swiss watch. My good friend and Club Brother @hotrodderhaag knows better than most about set up of a bones car, having had his hands on a few off them and now as the caretaker of Kens #575 32 3 window coupe. The bones cars ar built to be driven at 100mph plus for long distances across the country, and to be unbelievably reliable and handle amazing. Reach out to them, better yet pick up the Rolling Bones Book. It has every one of their builds (up to when the book was published) documented in it. Lots of good info from them there. https://www.amazon.com/Rolling-Bones-Peter-Vincent/dp/0989114953
It certainly can be made to work, but why make it harder? the triangulated 4 links that are in street rods are made of round tubing. They copy the triangulated 4 links of 60's GM A bodies, and 70's and 80's G body's. Those rode great, but they had stamped control arms that twist with articulation and suspension movement, the round tube stuff does not twist, and make the bushings do all the twist, most are urethane or plastic even and don't give much making for a much harsher ride.
I really appreciate the feedback! Good links, good websites to further my investigation....that's awesome!! I'm 6'3" and wondering if the Vega box would work better, I could push the steering column up higher to help match where my shoulders/hands would be and then run the shaft and U-joints.
Just for a little perspective, This is my pal Ben's 32, also know as the Pale Rider. Yes it is chopped hard, but i can see just fine out of it at 6 Ft 2 inches. That's me sitting on the tire in the first pic. Its a hot rod not a Honda civic, you are gonna have blind spots in an old car, Bens heavily hammered 32 is no worse than my 39 sedan for blind spots and visibility. Set up is the key, he used a vega box and i believe he built the column, and a modified but stock style bench seat, to get the view out the doors and windshield right.
Triangulated 4-links are just that: links. In principle they are subjected to compression and tension only. There is nothing intrinsic in the way they work which could cause them to twist — though ideally they ought to have spherical joints (Heims or tie rod ends) or compliant joints at all eight ends. Their functioning does not depend on their twisting or resisting twisting at all. The OEMs used sheetmetal stampings because it was cheaper than cutting tubing accurately and painstakingly welding up the end details. Unless you're thinking of truck arms, which work on a completely different principle? Having said all that, there is something to be said for having one very compliant bush on each diagonal link. The compliance happens only along the axis of the link it's on, so it can soak up some lateral shift resulting from a high rear roll centre — as most (but certainly not all possible) triangulated 4-link setups produce — without materially affecting the suspension geometry. You'd just have to be sure you're happy with the resulting effects under power/braking, as those may be benign or not depending on the specifics.
"Don't try to fancy it up, Dirt!' Faux, means phoney. Why hang fake steering & arm on a car, wasted effort. I answered my own questions by a closer look at the wish bones. Marginal grasp of the factory engineering principles. Running parallel to the frame negates the stability of a wish bone. Unsplit or close together = greater stability. This is basically a 2 bar setup.I saw one other rod done this way, the wishbones actually rubbed the frame during suspension travel.Many better options than cowl steering.
Maybe I'm miss-reading your comments but I thought it was "required" to have your suspension regardless of split/bat wing/etc to be parallel to your frame as well as having your steering arm be parallel to the suspension?
Why not use a drum brake system from a late fifties Mopar or Cadillac. Or get the suspension and brake system from a 1965 to 70 Pontiac Bonneville / Catalina / Grand Prix, with the four wheel drums. I wouldn't use the 8 lugs they are a real bear to get right. The corrosion issue is a real pain. That said, I once had a 64 Bonneville with 8 lugs and I converted it to disc / drum so I could use this vintage set of American T-70 wheels. What a let down! Those 8 lugs stopped that car on the dime all I had to do was lay my foot against the peddle and that big boat would smoothly but rapidly come to a hault. My dad taught me how to adjust drum brakes so I had them perfectly adjusted. Most people dont know about the anchor pin adjustment on the fronts. This plays very heavily on the performance of the drum brakes. Dont give up on drum brakes. They really can be a pleasure to have.
Colorado junk yards are getting harder and harder to come by good old cars....finding parts like that would be difficult but I appreciate the advice!
Your engine is setting too high off the frame in your mock up picture. Here's a shot of mine 325 dodge and 30 pick up.
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