Technical First thread, first Flathead. I need help!

wow, its not missing the air cleaner! thats a first for sure.

 

Yeah…so far all I’ve found that it is missing is the trunk latch. Oh and the right tail light (that was a joke).

 

To make your life easier, first pull the engine, mount it on a 4 wheel engine stand (not 3) for the best support and carefully take it all apart. Take photos and notes as you go.
Do not mount the engine by the cast iron bell housing as the cast iron can break causing your engine to fall off the stand.

Be sure to read this engine stand info. from Fordbarn.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90836&highlight=engine+stand
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116787&showall=1
Here's how you remove the oil pan.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199084

 

I think you'll find all of us here have our own way of doing things. Personally, I think KISS. Looking at the photo of the Motor the Last thing I would do is start tearing it down. There is no evidence that moisture or vermin could get inside the motor. Pull the dipstick. If there is water in it the oil mark will be quarts high past the full mark. If none is there that's probably okay also, just means it wept out over the years of sitting. If it was here, I would already have the starter off and MMO in each cyl. So let's talk about removing the starter. When you first look at it you're going to wonder where the bolts are that mount it. There are no perimeter bolts on them. The 2 bolts that hold the Barrel to both end bolts actually go all the way through and hold the total starter to the Tin plate. If you remove them totally you're going to have a battle on your hands. What you want to do is remove the outside bolt from just being threaded in but don't remove it. Now you loosen the other bolt about 3/8 of an inch, pull the barrel and end cap back and take a 1/4" nc nut slide it between the tin plate and barrel and put it on the first bolt you removed. Don't thread it back in the tin plate. Now it's a balance act of removing bolt #2 some and tightening the nut on bolt #1. A little back and forth and you will have a starter in your hand all in one piece. Anything less than that and you'll be cussing Henry in green words. Now I can take a proper pry bar and try to move the motor both directions easily.
I'm in the crowd of see if it will run at all first. No doubt it will come all apart someday but if it will run in any fashion and you decide to run something else it will bring more money if it runs and smokes and knocks than in a big pile of parts. Save your $$$$ and make sure you're moving forward.
P.S. Had I known of that auction I would have been there, and I would have out bid you. Once here I would be doing my best to make it run as is and then sell it off so my 392 could finally sit in its new home as it should be. In a 1940 Ford Coupe again.

 

Appears….they are still out there…..

 

I know the long through bolts have a 7/16" head (like a 1/4" bolt), but aren't the threads 5/16"?

 

Very Possible. I guess I should go look at one to verify. Should you be correct I doubt he could get that 1/4" nut started. I'm beginning to finally accept that at 75 Y.O. I'm not as sharp as I think. My hard drive is overloaded, and things get mixed up instead of getting deleted.

 

Here's how to remove 1940 Ford starter.
https://forums.aaca.org/topic/136884-1940-ford-v8-starter-removal/

 

Thank you for hte info on the starter! I would have totally botched that. I do know that these flatheads are unlike most engines and require their own knowledge and set of skill so everything I do will be done with care and research first.

I will eventually pull the motor but I'd love to see if I can get it started so I can see what I am working with before I tear the whole car apart.

On the dipstick there is red oil which to me tells me someone tried to get this thing moving at some point. However, judging by the dipstick and the gunk around it and just hte way it was sitting, it was done a LONG time ago. There is no sign of water on the dipstick. No signs of rodents in the car save for a little bit of a pile of fur in the glove box (seems like a perfect place to make a bed). My biggest concerns is the two spark plugs that were very difficult to remove. They were on the drive side bank, one on each side of the water hose. That makes me fear that water got in there but not knowing much about these engines, I don't even know if that is possible. I also feel like I saw a little rust down one of the plug holes before I pour the marvel mystery oil in.

 

Please keep the Flatty.

 

So let's say just for conversation sake prior to parking it had a leaking head gasket between the 2 center cylinders. The fluid level was topped off or close to it and it never ran again. The leaking had gasket would continue to leak only instead of water turning to steam and going out the exhaust it takes the natural course into the cylinder of easiest route. That is a very strong possibility.

 

don't feel bad about not knowing how to work that column shift; my wife learned to drive on a VW beetle, but she admits to watching me drive my shoebox (for almost 45 years!) and still can't figure out how i work that thing.
when i got my first car, a '53 ford, i was like all my buddies and put a floor shift in it. my dad just said, "why did you do that? we waited forever for column shifts!"

 

welcome busmania to the wonderful world of Flatheads and assorted other uses for foul language. Be patient and all will be well, keep it flat and Henry will be smilling down on you, and you will enjoy the experience that few get to enjoy............ hell anyone can make a small block chevy fast it takes a real rodder to make a Flathead run.......

 

First time I saw a '40 for sale it was around 1978 and the asking price was the unheard of sum of $500..... for a running driveable coupe! You made a great catch; looking forward to your progress!

 

A column is nice if you have passengers and comfort, barely need to move your hand from the wheel. I personally love column shift everything and personally prefer it to floor shifts. A floor shift auto will always be the lowest on the list for me.

 

Well, I picked up a spare Flathead long block just in case! It was $100 and so I could not say no. It also came with 3 extra cranks, head covers (what do you call these on a Flathead…the part the water hose goes into that on a traditional engine is the “head?” It also came with two exhaust manifolds and something else that I’m not sure what it is. The longblock turns and has distributor, coil, manifold etc. nice to have a back up!

is there anyway to id they year of the engine?

 

The almost round plate is a timing cover for a 3 bolt distributor. And the one exhaust manifold in the photo isn't from a flathead but the other 2 are. And yes, the are called heads on a flathead.

 

Welcome and great find. Just one thing...Since you pulled the flatty, it won't start in this condition with out the carburator and a starter. You might as well just give it to me...
Hopefully you can get it to turn. I hope you take photos before pulling it apart like someone mentioned.
It's good to have extra parts around just in case but, don't throw your money away before you get a good look at it.
Invest in a flathead mount for the engine stand. You'll be glad that you did.

 

Yep, I plan to buy a Flathead engine mount. I have not pulled the engine from the 40 yet. The photos above are of a spare I bought today because for $100 I couldn’t say no! Not knowing flatheads it is worth the $100 just to give me a visual of the parts cleaned up.
For the engine mount. I’ve been looking at them online. Are you talking about the ones that mount to the exhaust bolt holes and mount sideways on the stand?

 

Yes.
Even if the block is cracked, it's worth that for the parts and experience. I'm sure it has a lot of good parts in it like valves, crank, pistons....
If the block is good, you made out like a bandit!

 

Yes!!!!!!
The early flatheads must be side mounted as the risk to breaking the cast in bellhousing is great.
In the old days they would roll them (the block) around on a heavy-duty short bench.

 

that is the cylinder head. the hoses go on the water outlets. as far as identifying the various years, you can start on the hamb. at the top of the page, you'll see what looks like a magnifying glass. click on that and type in what you're looking for. also google. don't be afraid to read everything you can find about flatheads, either. it's a 1931 engine design and there's a lot to learn!

 

I wonder how much sand is in that block.

 

Being this is a Flathead posting in general and nobody has said anything about the " It also came with two exhaust manifolds and something else that I’m not sure what it is." Something Else", I'll tell you the package came with 3 exhaust manifolds. That something else is an exhaust manifold for a 348/409 Chevy motor.

 

If you have oxy/act torches warm up the area around the spark plugs and spray w/ PB blaster. Try to turn a little bit, spray w/ more p-oil, let cool, block or head gasket probably failed, common, use atf mixed with diesel 50/50 to free up rust in bores, work motor with pry bar against flywheel, carefully, after a week no dice, pull motor and do a tear down , ask the gang about getting heads off studs before you do damage.

 

Something else to know. Cracked Flathead blocks are way more common than a good one. You can't tell one from the other by eye most of the time. What the majority of byers have done in the last 20 years when shopping is include a machine shop in the deal. The byer tells the seller that he will pay the price after it goes to a machine shop to be Maged foe cracks and pressure tested as well as bore checked. That keeps the seller honest and the byer from adding to his Scrap pile. It's just honest dealing.

 

One other thing, 30 yrs ago I got an XKE 6 to turn over by filling engine with hot water from house tank in garage, heated atf with hot air gun in coffee can, dumped in spark plug holes, turned over next day, ran and burned a quart of oil in a minute, pulled engine, lesson learned.

 

That 348/409 manifold will pay for your spare engines and then some!

I have no clue on value, so would someone help him out with pricing, please?

 

Welcome, I always like seeing another 40 Ford hit the streets.

 

Value = about $0.04 a pound.