Technical POR15 Peeling Disaster

For an intermission and potty break. My ot '92 truck has been out side all its life. Over the years the paint has been degrading especially on the roof, rusting pretty good [ie bad] so I wire brushed and scuffed till I was tired. The wife had bought a can of white Flex Seal and the truck is white so I put on the roof with a roller [word to self, next time use a plastic roller] and was some work and a little textured but at a few feet looks ok.. Laughing yet? This was in early spring and in this short amount of time in the sun/rain it still is shinny and doing well I think. If I am around a few years down the road I'll update; I suspect it will do well.

 

The metal that is rusted badly needs to be cut out and replaced. Be sure you get all the thinned metal cut out and replaced, or you will be doing it again in 5-10 years.

The biggest issue you face is how to clean the crap off the areas that did not rust so you can weld to it. The best method I've found to do that is to use a thick cutoff wheel in a hand held, high speed die grinder, and use it to grind the crap off at the edge that needs to be welded. It is a slow process. Its pretty likely the cutoff wheel will load up with the stuff, have a piece of heavy steel you can use the run the cut off wheel across to clean it up so it will cut some more. You likely will be cleaning the cut off wheel after you grind the crap off of about 2" of the welding edge. When ever the wheel starts to load up and smears the stuff rather then remove it, clean the wheel off against the heavy metal. If you run it until it won't cut, you will probably have to replace the wheel. That stuff melts into the pours in the cutoff wheel, you have to clean the wheel up before the pours fill in completely, or they probably won't clean up.
What seems to work best is to do a general grind to remove most of the crud the first time, then after everything cools off a bit, take a second round. Repeat the process as many times as it takes until the metal is clean and shinny enough to weld to.

Yes, I've actually done those repairs, many times. There isn't a quick easy way. When that stuff sticks, it really sticks, but when it doesn't, it really doesn't. Cleaning off the stuff that really sticks is a pain in the butt.

I had to do a lot of metal repairs caused by that product in my shop. It didn't take too many of those repairs before I learned to not use it on anything that went through my shop. I won't even go into how many times I've seen the product fail. It seemed to me their quality control was all over the board, some of it worked great, some of it didn't work at all. That much product failure can't all be "poor application" but it was a great excuse for the company to not have to cover any warranty claims. Gene

 

If it's that difficult to apply properly, then perhaps it's not the best thing to use, eh?

 

It's not difficult at all. Just like you can't drive your car off the street into the paint booth and expect a show winning result, you do need reasonable preparation.

To the O/P : I don't think there is any "Magic Bullet" to solve your problem. You will have to remove the improperly applied material (it really doesn't matter what it is), and then use your best judgement, like you are starting from scratch on an already rusted vehicle.

 

I've seen it peel enough times that I don't use it. But there's still no picture Squirrel

 

I know guys who have put POR-15 over new, clean, smooth metal, and had issues with it lifting. Supposedly it was because the surface was too smooth. At least that's what they were told when they contacted the company. They said it should be roughed up by sandblasting, or scuffed rough enough for the POR-15 to grip the metal.
So Paint Over Rust might fail, but Paint Over too smooth might also fail.

 

I do have the Sunex version of the Crud Thug....

I would love the pressure washer but I just don't know how that would get done since would have to be outside. I wonder how high I could shore up one side before it rolls over???

OR lay fiberglass on the top of the corrugated deck holes and then... cases and cases of Fluid Film from underneath (if oxygen is getting through the POR, so will the FF.)

OR find some grimy garage that wouldn't mind the mess while on a lift. (obviously not pressure wash, but hey, money talks.)

(and lippy, awesome GIF)

 

The naked truth that no one wants to tell you is: at 70 years old and having had (what you don’t seem to want to show pictures of) for 10+ years…. a project that will need all that stripping and rust repair on the bottom…. It sounds like you should send it to a trusted shop and have it done. OR, cut your losses, sell it, and get something that’s in better condition.
There is no easy solution to your problem, especially at our age.

 

Friend had good idea for pressure washing: take bed off truck

 

You speak words of wisdom. But the truck had NO rust 10 years ago (I welded it all up) so while rust is afoot from POR improperly applied, bed is not quite a lost cause. If I can find a 2nd car for a reasonable price, I'll be free to take time dealing with this. In fact, I have a nice KEMPPI TIG rig that I'm dying to start using and think it would be better for body work than MIG which I also have. (My expertise is oxy-acetylene body welding.)

The "70 thing" is basically I'm tired of crawling around under cars on jack stands. Never got a lift, garage too small, yadda yadda... could put a 4-post outside but neighbors/city would have me shot.

Pics are a problem, HDD crashed on primary PC, new cell phone, had this app where phone pics automatically showed up on PC and that spoiled me rotten (Mobile Sync Station). And my network between 2 Win10 PC's is so FUBAR'd it's beyond words. I could go on and on about my IT problems.....​

 

A nice breezy day armed with all your scrappers, wire brushes, a handheld propane torch, a good pair of safety glasses and a large tarp. two days and this will be a memory. pictures too.

 

Since someone mentioned pictures (and we know we all love them). I stopped by my shop on the way to the post office this morning. Since the '51 is already up on the lift, I took a couple of quick pictures of the bottom. This was done over the winter of 1987-88. I posted these, not because this is a POR-15 thread, but because it really isn't.

Sorry it's so dirty, but at 80, I have trouble even keeping the top clean.

 

OK OK, you've shamed me to post pics. By end of day.

ALSO: GREAT TIP: put a tarp down !!!!!!!

CRAZY PROJECT: Get an old Walmart Scooter and turn into a motorized creeper....

 

First, let me say your post are NOT as clear as you think they are. I have no idea what new metal you welded on if the po had already finished the surfaces affected.
You are knocking a great product if used properly, and yet you don't want any feedback from the guys who know this. We are just supporting what we know to be a good product. I wouldn't even think about restoring a car without it. Mine is done 100% inside and underside...any and all surfaces that didn't get finish paint. All other visible por-15'd surfaces were sprayed with Bulldog adhesion promoter before paintable undercoating or textured flecked paint (trunk). I have zero por-15 flaking/peeling issues after 6 years and 62k miles. It's all about prep, and getting a good tooth on the surfaces. The other thing that needs attention paid to is what and how you apply top coating to the por-15. Not many things will stick to it.
As many stated, you have no easy way out. Where the por-15 stuck as it should have, it's gonna be a bitch to get off cause it's as tough a coating as it gets. I'd remove the bed, if that's where the issue is, and bring it to a sandblaster.

 

I'm a few years older than the PO and understand the difficulties encountered on this type of dirty/nasty prep work. You won't get any better advise than what Texas57 has stated.
I have an early Barracuda that POR was used extensively on 30 years ago. It has not rusted, lifted or caused any problems at all. "Paint over rust" was a sales gimmick that folks bought into but the reality is, nothing substitutes for proper prep work and understanding the compatibilities of products. That's why all paint manufacturers try to sell you on their "paint system". Helpful for the novice and profitable for their sales.
I have a few projects underway to complete, then I will likely face reality and start unloading equipment and farm out any subsequent similar tasks.

I do get some of my best naps lying on a piece of cardboard under a car though. Good luck with it.

 

You don't have to clean anything off of metal you are going to weld. The temperatures involved burn off everything in the area of the weld long before welding temp is achieved. As far as cleaning metal, the O-A torch and a wire brush does a great job. Wire wheels just make a mess. Crud Thug does work since loose tines which do not clog, but still makes a mess.

I think my solution is going triage w/FF until I acquire a 2nd daily driver, crawl around underneath and scrape/brush off the bad POR areas, then a frequent regimen of Fluid Film and that CRC Marine Rust Preventative in wheel spray areas. Any holes in the deck corrugations I'm simply going to cover with fiberglass. If I can find someone who would pressure wash on a lift, I will go that route.

 

POR 15, garbage,

I've had multiple failures of the product. Bought the entire product line, prep etc. Followed every step. Bought more. I'm done with it.


How to deal with it. Pressure wash, it peels off in sheets. Just do it every year, because it will keep peeling

 

Several years ago I came across an add on CL from someone renting out a towable 4 post lift. At the time I wasn’t looking to rent one but to buy one, so didn’t follow up.
But you’d also have to consider that some of the POR15 is actually adhering in places that the pressure washer won’t knock off. So you may have to use some elbow grease to complete the job.

 

I'm sure that somewhere close to you there is Jiffy Lube or some other Quick Lube joint that has a pit.
Maybe ask the kids working there if they want to make a few extra bucks when they're not too busy???
Most places around here seem empty lately.

 

Been here done this...pressure washer with a rotating turbo tip for removing the slabs and a needle gun for the stuff that actually worked like it was supposed to. In my situation, things had been prepped by copper slag blasting, which leaves a great tooth for adhesion. After noticing problems with it, I found out about the need for low humidity when applying it. I think the humidity being too high is what caused it. I tend to think that's why lots of guys have no problems with it and others...not so much.

 

Big YES to TURBO Nozzle (!)

This "humidity thing" - could it be a moisture problem in shop air? It takes a serious effort to get the water out. BIG desiccant filter and a trap and separator upstream too. OR a refrigeration unit. Of course if you live in a dry area and not FL or Rust Belt, it's easier. (It's sort of ironic that Eastwood is in PA.)

Talked to garage buddy and told me a pressure washing outfit I actually know does big rigs - they have a pit and PW the underneath (!) Only problem is my track may be too narrow to drive over their pit.

There is also a place 15 miles away that undercoats cars with sprayed oil. It's possible they PW the junk off before they do their treatment. They are expensive, something like $250 for simple spray and $500 with door insides, frame, etc. Still, a renewable treatment that will last as long as you want.

 

Denny , (Tubman) ,
I think it looks great for being done over 35 years ago,,,,,,not bad at all .
A little seepage from the third member,,,,,but that just shows you have driven it like it was supposed to be .
Maybe the durability of some of these rides goes back to who does the work ?
Looks like you did good .

Tommy

 

Every time I used POR15 it just so happens it was winter and I did prep the surfaces after roughing them up and apply it with a brush like the instructions said to and not a spray gun. Then I welded the stuff together in the summer. And I'm in northern Indiana too. 25 years in and still good, the Rustoleum I put over it not so much. Remember that POR15 only has a 10 year guarantee.

 

We did POR 15 on a 64 Pontiac frame that was sandblasted , in a heated paint booth. 15 yrs. later still good. Humidity and surface prep is important. With some rusty surfaces, I prefer oil based Aluminum paint. A chemical engineer customer told us it works better than POR-15. We have had great results with the Rust-Oleum version after last 10 years.

 

Thanks, Tommy. I posted it to show the effects of the POR-15, not the quality of the car. I just got the lift last year and see I have some work to do. Hopefully the lift will allow me to get this cleaned up again. I could not do it laying on my back. It seems it will need a new carrier gasket.

And I have driven this car. I have used it as a daily everyday in the summer when the weather is not totally a disaster for the last 36 years.

 

I did a new 2x3 chassis 6 yrs ago during this time of the year, used their 3 part system on the new steel and it's holding up great so far, so technically there was no rust on the metal to adhere to.

 

I have used POR on my car in a few places and it has held up. Each time, the surfaces were wire wheeled and wiped with solvent. And applied the POR 15 in the summer heat.

I quickly learned that is it wise to buy in the smallest amount possible and throw away what is left over... and do not get it on anything you care about.

 

Holy goatfuk, this is a job for the DHS! How the so simple become so analyzed. Wash the shit off, wash the mess into a pile, let it dry and pick it up the next day. I'm 65, my bro is 70, another is 62. That's EXACTLY how we'd do it. We're all fkn lazy like that, make it easy. Who gives a fat rats ass what happend, why, the highs and lows of rust products, blah fkn blah blah blah.

Just so y'all know I'm not a hard-hearted fuckwad. I did wave my magic wand over this topic and it might resolve itself. The batteries in it are quite weak though so...

 

Sooooo,
You’re for or against ,,,,,,LoL .

Tommy