Technical 396 lifter noise help.

This is the go-to place for experience and information. I'm on it tonite and I will update the findings/progress.

 

If it was one of those engines and you put the wrong camshaft in it, the oil pressure would fall on it's face. You'd know right off it was wrong. Ran into this on a buddy's 396 when he had low oil pressure after a new cam change.

 

What did you do to clean up the engine before installing a new camshaft, after finding wiped out lobes? If this engine wasn't thoroughly flushed, whatever metal was floating around inside the oil passages could be pumped into the new lifters resulting in lifters not functioning properly, and sticky lifters. If this is the case the only cure is to flush the engine well, replace oil and filter, and remove all the lifters to disassemble them, and flush the debris out.
I've run into this previously, and metal inside lifters wont ever flush through the small orifices.

 

The metal gets embedded in bearings, in the piston skirts, etc. Really need to take it all apart to get rid of it all.

 

1965 in the early 396's was the grooved rear cam bearing. You could use the stock bbc cam bearings but had to groove the rear cam journal. I always set them running. I would do them cold with the intake off then button it up and fire it. I still say you may be running them with not enough preload. Lippy

 

We took the intake, valve covers, timing cover and pan off. We could see the cam bearings very well and they looked almost new with only slight wear. I checked the rods and mains and they were very nice with almost no wear. We flushed out everything with brake clean and kerosene and we even took the oil pump out and apart and flushed it. Surprisingly we didn't really see any metal except a small amount in the pan. I did not cut the oil filter but I probably should have. On another forum I got a response from a GM engineer and he said when GM had all the bad camshafts the procedure was to clean as good as possible and replace the parts. He did not remember any comeback issues from metal in the oil. He also said the oiling system was doing it's job, as designed, filtering the metal out before it goes to the crank and cam.

 

Well we took off the valve covers tonight and there were 2 for sure stuck lifters, as in the inside piston in the lifter. Saturday we will take the intake off and check the cam. I'm crossing my fingers it's OK. Then, if the cam and lifter bottoms look good we will put another complete set of lifters in. I'll probably get lifters at NAPA, unless there are some other good quality suggestions.

 

Been fun but I'm done. Lippy

 

Thanks for the info and help.

 

If I were replacing all the lifters...I'd want to replace the cam, too.

 

bullshit,I worked @ goodies speedshop and Bob Hutlinger(sp) had a 55 chevy drag car and he and Bill Hudson decided to trade motors both big block,Bob found the cam flat and decided to change cams even thought Mark Miller said that was not a good idea without tearing it all down to check for damage,it was street driven for a short time then we took it to fremont dragstrip we got about 4 passes in before it spun a bearing and that rod cut the block in half and destroyed almost every thing

 

I read Johnsons lifters are made in the USA .... check first though ..

Have also read on more than a few forums, Folks are finding bits of metal/trash in carbs/lifters, etc

Perhaps prudent to take everything apart and check for debris


Ricky.

 

Yeah ask my buddy about wiped lobes. This ain't the first time it has occurred, "and I helped".

 

The rear cam journal is a common issue with early versions of Chebby engines. Now that is a mystery to me. Not that it happens but the why of it. LOL The other mystery of course is why aftermarket cam companies don't seem to sell year specific cams that are already machined for the odd mills.

Jim (@squirrel ) I had forgotten that about the 396. Now that I am thinking about it I think that the '67 came both ways, like an early and a late version of that block. Of course I could be mistaken. Thanks for the reminder.

 

That's what we decided. After we got it apart, we found the cam and lifters are shot. It appears to be defective according to some local and knowledgeable mechanics with big block and performance experience. We also found out there are lots of cam/ lifter failures. Now, where do we go for new reliable parts? A couple suggestions have been Howard cams and Lunati. We did score a old stock (30 years old) brand new set of GM lifters.

 

Roller cam and lifters.

 

I think you'll find that there are hydraulic-roller lifters that are of questionable quality as well.

 

That’s what I’ve heard as well, mostly here on the HAMB. Any ideas of a good source for rollers?

 

It seems that damn near everything manufactured today is of questionable quality and just a crap shoot away from catastrophic failure!

 

Overspray ...... Since you're asking, we have been getting all of our camshafts made by Bullet Racing Cams for the past 20+ years, as well as lifters, springs, etc. They custom make each one for your engine.

Call and talk to Chris Padgett or John Partridge. Call Bullet Racing Cams at (662)893-5670
Bullet Cams

Tell them I told you to call.
Glenn Hayes

 

I second Glenn's recommendation, ^^^. Our local engine guru had several cams go bad in the last couple of years and now only goes with Bullet, not a single failure.

 

On a new build of an engine I care about I won't take the risk of a flat tappet cam anymore. I destroyed the internals of an engine when the cam went flat about 15 years ago. Roller is definitely more expensive, but worth it in my book. For a cheap throw together engine, I'll take the risk. I've even gotten away with putting new lifters on a used solid flat tappet, but I wouldn't recommend it. Billet cam with a cast gear and a good set of rollers is the way to go. I have Isky Red Zone bushed solids in my race motor. At $1400, they weren't cheap, but I won't have needles destroy my engine if they come apart. I have Morel hydraulic rollers in my cruiser. They were "only" about $450, but have very few known failures.

Devin

 

Man, 3 can remember a time when even the cheap General Kenetics camshafts were good quality.... What's this world coming to?????....

 

any suggestions? What brand/company?

Thanks, Glenn.

 

If you go Hydraulic roller go Isky , made by Johnson. If you go flat tappet go Johnson. For some reason I can buy flat tappet Johnson lifters from my machine shop , but the Johnson rollers have to be bought through the big cam companies . Crower is way backordered on em but Isky seems to have em. Just so you know BBCs are notorious for eating cams . I just built a 454 for my off topic C10 using Johnson flat tappet lifters and had zero issues. I fired up a buddies 454 on the stand with a major cam companies cam and lifters and 3 lifters had the plungers stick . luckily no damage was done but the lifters had a ton of crap in em. You absolutley have to make sure the lifters spin freely in the bore with a flat tappet cam.

 

IIRC, there's a grooved rear cam bearing for early blocks to use the later style cams.
@Blues4U I once saw an engine changed because of a locked up alternator bearing...

 

Yes, there's a grooved rear cam bearing, it doesn't have quite a big enough groove though....

I once saw an engine starting to be changed because of a locked up alternator, but they figured it out in time before they pulled the engine out of the car.

 

I once had a 426 hemi on a stand in my garage. It had a intermittent clatter and a miss that all the "real" mechanics could not figure out. I was or am always everyone's last resort. I don't mind at all. The guy was at wits end with it and said that if I could not figure it out he would let me have it for my labor.

I was tempted.

I had the pushrods laid out on my bench and was just getting ready to pull the heads when the *bench got shook and the pushrods all rolled off onto the floor. Except too of them. I scratched my head then began to roll them one at a time. Two of them were slightly bowed and rolled funny.

I replaced the bad pushrods. Problem solved.

I was tempted though.

*I aint tellin how the bench got wiggled.