Love the car. Back end could be better i think. & are those fake knock off spinners. Hate fake knock offs
I think the gracious way to say it is that the Kurtis was simple and beautiful. However, I fear the most realistic way to state it is that the Kurtis was archaic.... even in 1958 - the target year for this car. So let's look at Road America in 1958... what would have this car competed against? Given its lack of production numbers, the Kurtis would have ran in the modified class. So, main competitors would have been: Ferrari 250 TR Lotus Eleven Maserati 450 Jag XKSS Porsche 550 Aston Martin DB3S Obviously, all of these cars are off topic to the HAMB... But, I bring them up to illustrate just how far behind we were in the 1950's when it came to sport car racing. Americans could beat anyone in a straight line - 1/4-mile or 5-mile. Same with long and short ovals... But when it came to Grand Prix racing, we were infants playing with teenagers. Why? Due to our history of land speed racing, drag racing, etc... we focused initially on pure power. When that didn't work, we started to focus on lighter cars that still made power. Kurtis understood the power to weight ratio as well as anyone... But what we didn't truly understand yet was suspension geometry, stopping power, and weight distribution. I mean... look at this gorgeous Kurtis... and then look at that Ferrari. They don't seem as if they are playing by the same set of rules, right? The Ferrari is multiple generations ahead. And it's fascinating... because to this day, American sport cars tend to lean towards power over handling dynamics. We make up time on the straights that we lost in the corners. Of course... there have been exceptions. Although less than you would think. The only car that has ever really dominated on the world stage of Grand Prix racing is the GT40. And even then, that domination was limited to endurance racing... and... well... The GT40 was mostly made in England. Corvette? Fantastic American race car... Has never dominated on the world stage in any capacity. I think this is gonna change soon. The Cobra? Great car... had some success in Europe, but never consistently. Mustang? Not even close. What else is there? Frank Kurtis and Briggs Cunningham both tried like hell, but no one really learned from the lessons they taught us early on. I guess because we've never been about that business.
Dude,you are killin me.. You keep popping up with this stuff that's already in my head ,I am not getting much sleep as it is.Keep it coming.
The rears are obviously real... The fronts are different? Not sure what is going on there, but I'm not super knowledgeable on these early Halis... I would assume they are pin drive wheels. The car was auctioned off a while back and I found the listing... All it states is: "Original Hallibrand wheels as supplied by Kurtis."
Hi Ryan what you are saying is blasphemy from an American point of view but still you are right. But it is also true for production cars, when US car makers still built strong big cars with old style frames and suspensions, the europeans left that path in the 50s and often built unibody cars with advanced suspension, front wheel drive and so on (except the VW Beetle but which already was an anachronism by 1950). While you are right about the technical aspects as I said before the reduced design of the Kurtis looks more modern than all the other high-end cars you showed.
I didn't mean for it to have a negative connotation. As a country, America doesn't participate in Grand Prix Racing with any real gusto... Instead, we race in straight lines and circles... The rest of the world can't compete with us there. At all. I think the big reason we never really went for dynamic cars is actually our car culture. Americans from all walks of life love cars. They love driving cars. They love road trips. Etc... Given that and given most people don't actually know how to drive a car fast, what's more fun on the street? What promotes a car culture? A light and nimble car with a high strung power band or a heavy car with huge power at the expense of weight and balance? I think huge power is more fun if you aren't serious about lap times.
Standard Kurtis 500S Weight: 2105 pounds Power: 331-inch Hemi making 360hp at 4700rpm Ferrari 250TR Weight: 1760 pounds Power: 3L V12 making 390hp at 7500rpm Even crazier... The Kurtis was more expensive in 1955.
Maybe as "motoring" developed in the 40s and 50s, the Americans that would have raced in the Grand Prix genre were riding/racing motorcycles?
I think it sounded more negative to me as I am from Europe and here you often hear and read that classic US-Cars were "powerful dinosaurs with extravagant design and antiquated technology" or something along that line. While I also like European Classics it's the US car culture that has much more fascination to me than European Car Culture (If something like that exists anyway).
I don't know much about motorcycle racing... but if that's the case, it didn't translate into fast American production bikes or riders. There's been a few American MotoGP world champions in the past (more than F1), but I don't think there has been a single American rider in quite some time?
Which if you look at it objectively is absolutely true in almost every aspect. But, what's better looking - a 1955 Morris Minor or a 1955 Chevrolet? And what's more fun to drive - a '57 Hillman Minx or a '57 Ford? I'd take the American car in almost every comparison if we are just cruising, drag racing, and being general hooligans... On a dynamic Grand Prix course, however, that all changes...
I love that video. I had the opportunity to drive the 8-Ball Corvette in anger a few years back. That experience opened my eyes like no other. The guys that could drive those cars competitively were crazy talented. So much power with relatively awful brakes and a suspension that can't sort itself at all... on tracks with zero safety... It's crazy so many of them lived...
Boss, you might want to revisit this statement: "The Cobra? Great car... had some success in Europe, but never consistently." Among other things, it won the 1965 FIA International Championship for GT Manufacturers for the over 2000cc class, and would've done the same in 1964 if it weren't for Enzo working to get the final race of the season—which Shelby would've won—canceled. The majority of the points-paying races in FIA events were overseas against foreign cars. When you read contemporary reports and stories about these accomplishments, it puts good perspective on what the Cobra—in all its forms—achieved. It was a world beater in virtually every type or race it entered. This is to say nothing of the number of US championships/races it won, which is massive, and always against a very diverse entry (from the Corvettes it easily outclassed to any number of pure-bred cars. Check out "The Cobra Ferrari Wars" by Michael Shoen...an absolutely amazing book.
I could absolutely be wrong, but that was the Daytona Coupe - right? And the era of the Cobra/Daytona was 1963 to '66 or so? To me, that's a good few years for sure... and again, I love those cars. But were they dominant in the way Mercedes was starting in 1934 when they won every race on the calendar for like 5 years straight? Or Alfa when they won like 6 or 7 manufacturers titles in a row? Or Ferrari... Hell, how many rules have been made to make them slower? Or even the Porsche 917 in all its variations that dominated for 5 years running? Point being... To us, the Cobra and the Daytona Coupe and the GT40 are world beaters. Those are the cars we finally competed and won with. You could say we even dominated with them... But they were all short lived and never translated into a grand prix presence like that of the European manufacturers. I mean, there won't be a sequel to Ford Vs. Ferrari... because we all know what happened next...
I'd have to think that at the time Kurtis was attempting to build those cars the folks with the money to actually buy one and race it were choosing to go with a known quantity and that being one of the choices in post 4. They also already had race history and success. They may be a tad OT but they are also part of the reason that a lot of young Americans built hot rods. You could cut down and soup up an old roadster or coupe and stick a big late model for the time engine in it and go fast for a lot less than you could buy a sports car from the UK or Europe for. The bank wasn't going to loan the average working stiff the money for a Jag XK140 but you could stick a hot V8 in an old roadster body and run right one out on the long straight stretch outside of town. For others the Kellison, Fiberfab, Devlin and who knows how many fiber glass sports car bodies that you stuck on a stripped down chassis had to be their sports car of choice and a number of those were pretty successful. Fun stuff.
Some were successful in the US... None were successful internationally really - including the line of Kurtis cars... Though a couple of Kurtis roadsters did well in the Panamerica... If you are looking for American cars/teams that did well internationally from 1930 until the 70's or so, it's actually a really short list. I'd rank them like this: 1. GT40 - Despite being mostly built in England, it was done so with mostly American principles. And it won Le Mans three years in a row... including the famous 1-2-3 finish over Ferrari. 2. Jim Hall and Chaparral. These cars were only limited by the rules. Chaparral won what was probably one of the most difficult races in history - the 1966 Nurburgring. And it did it on its first trip out. From there, rules started getting in the way - either Jim not following them or the FIA changing them. Still, these cars actually had a direct effect on Grand Prix car development all across the world in a major way... and the Chaparrals might be the only American cars that can boast that. Plus, my dad was part of the team so I'm biased. 3. Cobras/Daytonas. Again, a great few years. They had the huge GT class win at Le Mans, but I think the biggest thing the Cobra did for American racing was that it was sort of the foundation of the GT40. They took what they learned from the Cobra and moved forward. Interesting trivia... Both the Cobra and the Chaparral cars were initially developed and tested at Rattle Snake Raceway in Midland, TX - the town I grew up in...
Here's some more Kurtis kk500 cars... These are the kit cars that Kurtis developed... bodies were optional. And here are some shots of some 500S cars... These were entirely manufactured by Kurtis: To me, what's so cool about these Kurtis cars is that they were all based off the chassis ran on the Kurtis 500 Race car that won Indy sooo many times: The lineage makes it for me...
This has a lot of local history for me. Dick Hahn was the Second or third generation owner of the Chrysler dealership in Yakima, Wa and one of his sons is the VW, Mercedes, Kia dealer and his daughter (or one of) was a well known sports car race driver for a number of years, The other son is an airline pilot. Lew Florence was the local VW dealer for a lot of years. No doubt backed by Dick Hahn. I remember seeing that Kurtis sitting on that building back in the late 50's early 60's but didn't have a clue as to what it was then. It was just a landmark item on the way from the ferry dock to the road that went to my step grandparents place then.
No mention of the Scarab. Probably the most beautiful front engine sports car ever. And a winning modified race car besides. Small block Chevy engines and T10 transmissions, Halibrand qc with De Dion rear suspension, independent front suspension, and one of the few foreign car parts, a Morris rack and pinion steering gear. And they raced well into the 60's as the Meister Brauwer cars. Oh and raced in Nassau so competed internationally.
I love the Scarab. In fact, I agree... One of the most gorgeous cars ever made. The thing about the Scarab though is that it was built about a decade too late. While it had some success on US tracks, it was pretty miserable internationally. They entered one in F1 in 1960... and I think it was the last front engine F1 car in history? Close to it anyway... Finished one race. Their downfall was the desmodromic valve gear. Old technology from the 50's era Mercedes team that they just couldn't get reliable. That and overheating issues... They built a mid-engine Scarab powered by a Buick V8 in the early 60's. But by the time the car was done, FIA rules had changed once again and they couldn't race it in Europe at all... It's pretty damned gorgeous too...
Here is actual factual data rather than my stupid off the top of my head thoughts: Daigh had payment issues? That's a bitch...
The Jalopy Journal
