Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

Procured a new set of spindles, F1 Ford (thanks Nick in Pennsylvania).
The black spindles are the new to me set. Now I'm trying to figure out what exact year they are. I've been searching for them but being computer challenged, I'm not having much luck.

Close examination and some measurements seem to indicate that they are similar to 42-48 Ford passenger car front spindles with the square flange. The boss to boss dimension where they fit the axle matches, the king pin size matches and the offset or king pin inclination more properly seems to be the same.

2 differences are the right side spindle does not have 2 tie rod bosses, and the axle is larger taking a considerably larger inner bearing. I examined the right side spindle to see if it had been modified by cutting off the cross steer tie rod boss, and was surprised that it is as manufactured. No cut marks and in fact there's forging mark evidence.

I'm going to check the king pin inclination next time in the garage and fit a set of 42-48 king pins to them to verify that they are the same.

And being an enginerd... the inner bearing has a 1 5/16 diameter compared to passenger car spindles at 1.19 inch diameter. Cross sectional area is 0.24 sq. in. larger, or 22% more. A significant increase in cross section at a highly stressed area. It also appears that the brake components I'm using on the Whatever project will probably bolt on with only a spacer to move the inner bearing out slightly.

Like I said above, I'm not sure what year exactly these came off of. I did find a tie rod that had a loooooon right side with a boss for another tie rod end, and a short adjuster attached to the left end with what appears to be a standard tie rod end giving an adjuster on the left side for toe.

So if anyone has used these before, let me know what exactly they came out of. Thanks

 

Nick in Pennsylvania just got back to me regarding these spindles, they are 49-52 F1 spindles. New king pins next, I already have a set for 42-48 passenger car spindles. Would still like to see pictures of a stock(ish) F1 front end of that vintage. Thanks

 

Been a few days of migraines and rebound headaches, so nothing from the garage, however I did manage to get a pair of cylinder heads to Boyd's Moteorwerks today for them to start on. 462 casting small valve heads. Jack is going to magnaflux and evaluate their condition for old mangy that is going to be rebuilt for the Whatever.

We also discussed the general concept of the engine build, being a mild street engine. Hydraulic roller cam, as he's been seeing a lot of flat tappet failure since most manufacturers have gone offshore for their lifters. That and the drastic reduction in ZDDP in today's oil.

Estimated all up weight is around 1500 pounds, gearing can be set to maximize the rpm range on the street. Original Edelbrock Torker manifold and Holley 650 carburetor, 3 gear cam drive (it'll make a nice whine...), and a few other odds and ends Jack wants to incorporate.

So no fabrication most of the week, but spending money...

 

smart move
I'm doing the same thing with my champ car.
You can always build more power later.

 

We're probably both on the desert side of life. So like Home Improvement:
Tim; More power! R R R!
Al; I don't think so, Tim.

 

Finally! Got old mangy down to a short block. The good news: it is in really good shape inside. It had been rebuilt sometime in its past, evidenced by the rods and main caps being numbered. It was a stock rebuild, haven't measured the bores yet, so there's that to check. It had steel shim head gaskets, with no evidence of any failures.

The bad news: cast crank! Arrg! Now I know lots of engines have been built using cast cranks. I just don't like spending a bunch of money with the potential that if I get carried away, well cast crank...

So next time I talk with Jack Boyd, I'll see if he has an opinion regarding a couple of options: a forged Scat 350 crank (we'll call it a stroker 327...), or try to locate a usable 327 large journal forged crank (think hen's teeth these days), or finally pull the 283 forged crank I've been hording for decades out and have it ground and polished, and use my last 327 small journal block. Of course where that gets expensive is rods. Small journal forged rods are becoming a bit spendy. Everything else will be new anyway, so those will be the places where I'll be spending more.

So here's some pics of the insides. Surprising how clean it is. Decisions, Decisions!

 

Time to dig up a Jar Olde feller .
Question is which Jar ?
Stretch

 

The one in the east corner! That's got enough in it!

If you have a good small block in a back corner over there, I could help you clean out some clutter. 283 or early 327, I'm not fussy!

 

BTW Stretch, stop over some morning. After 9... or I'll stop over there, especially if you're getting the sedan back together.

 

Dave, I've been reading this since the beginning, even though I don't post much. I'm not a fabricator, so I like watching your process.

I have learned a few things about small block Chevies over the years. Judging from the side pictures, you may have a 400. For the first few years they only had 2 freeze plugs in the side of the block. I believe that to be unique to the 400. Check your casting numbers on the back of the block and bore size. Standard bore for a 400 was 4.125, a 302/327/350 would be 4.000 inches.

Devin

 

No it's definitely a 327. By the numbers it's a 1968 327-250 hp 4v truck engine. I've had a couple 400s. Siamesed cylinders, this one doesn't have them. But it certainly would be nice. Can you imagine a real torque beast in a light weight roadster?

Oh well, I'll just have to build a 302 I guess...

And thanks for watching me fumble thru this thing. It's been a number of years since building the modified race cars, some skills are sloooooowly returning. Like my welding. I'm getting closer to a row of dimes. Still throwing in some nickels, but practice and my angle grinder are helping...

 

Dave
I'm a 327 kind of guy so you got me at full attention but.......302's, man, when my pal in high school bought a real 68 Z-28 in 1971/72 that thing was untameable, (I think that's a word).

 

Wrenched on a few 302s for the limited class cars back in the dirt days. Built one on the cheap using that combination of block and crank, and even the same casting numbers heads. Got a 327 300 hp engine from a friend of Jim's who had a junkyard in the Berkshires, and a 283 for the crank. We were given a used set of TRW 30 over 302 forged pistons, and another friend bored and honed the block to match.

In my stash of goodies was a Chevy off road race cam, last 3 digits 754. It was the most radical cam Chevy offered in those days. The same machinist did the heads using a set of 2.02 and 1.60 valves from my stash, and machined the heads for screw in studs and guide plates. So far total cost: $0.

Had to buy gaskets, bearings, grind to fit rings, and a rebuild kit for a Holley double pumper I had. We used a Chevy aluminum dual plane intake, also from the stash, and a corvette dual point distributor with tach drive. Did buy a new oil pump and timing set. By the time it hit the track it had cost approximately $600. Raced it 4 times, a 3rd a 2nd, a crash caused dnf, and a win. Got worried about the 300 hp rods we used from the 327 with only new rod bolts, the small ones, and yanked it. It ended up under a bench in Jim's shop. Now as Paul Harvey used to say for the rest of the story.

Jim sold that car the following season, as he was moving to California and didn't need it anymore. But by then he had teamed up with another old timer from Pittsfield who put engines in the car for Jim, so out came the junkyard dog engine and it was sold with the car. It ran for the season with no problem for the new owner/driver. The only part changed was the distributor. We put an HEI in it which was bone stock, except for the curve. Jim sold it with one set of change gears, probably 5.70s give or take a point or 2. I doubt if they were ever changed. Probably why it lived.

 

Miced the bores. It's still stock at 4.005 inch diameter approximately one inch down the cylinder. Feels like just a wee bit of carbon build up at the top of the cylinders, nothing that a ridge reamer won't cure. Lifters are not stuck, but do have something keeping them from just falling out. Have to be careful not to damage a lifter bore removing them. I'll pull the crank and rods out and then fuss with the lifters.

Been investigating if anyone still makes adapter bearings to put a small journal crank in a large journal block. King Engine Bearings used to, and they still list rod bearings to use 2.1 rods on 2.0 cranks. Don't know if Jack would go with Grumpy Jenkins method, using a set of large journal mains and honing to fit small journal bearings.

Jenkins engines only had to last a weekend of drag racing, not thousands of miles on the street. But the old King adapter bearings were used in NASCAR to reduce bearing surface speed. And they also used Honda sized rod bearings. Reduced surface speed and big end rod mass. Oh well the least expensive is to get a stroker crank, i.e. a 350 crank and just call it a stroker 327.

Tomorrow will get more answers...

 

I'd razz you about how long your engine rebuild is taking, but I know how long mine is taking, and seeing as how most of the parts came from you.... I won't rush you! At least, not yet.

Now if I could just get my thread alerts to actually alert me when a new post is made!

 

I need a hungry garage cat! Today's misadventure efforts didn't involve getting much done on the Whatever project. What did transpire was a comedy of sorts.

It started yesterday when I was finishing up a small project for the neighbor. I made a framework from some leftover materials he had from a trampoline frame. The gist of it is it's a cage sort of thing that holds a Treepod up, so Bob or his significant other can enjoy taking a snooze on their deck in mosquito season. That was easy. So what was the comedy in 3 parts, you ask?

There's a thread about shop visitors. Mine are just chipmonks. But what a nuisance. The first one died under the landing for the garage door to the mud room. Didn't find it until it was goo...

There's been more, most of the time I can chase them out. But the one yesterday was tenacious. I thought I had gotten it out of the garage, but it must have circled around and back uo to the landing, where it found a nice cozy sleeping spot, in my garage shoes. So thinking that I got rid of it, I closed the door and went in for the evening.

Act 1 was over. Now acts 2 and 3. Act 2 just before taking Maggie to physical therapy today, I opened the door from the mud room to the garage and started to go to the daily driver to put the booster step SWMBO needs and this thing comes charging past me bouncing around the garage and heading for the back corner. Thank god! Because if it had made it thru the door, it would have free run of the entire house, as I didn't shut the inner door to the house from the mud room.

Finally act 3. Close the inner door, go back into the garage, open the overhead door and start banging on all of the steel stuff to make as much noise as possible. This in my feeble attempt to run it out. I failed! But I didn't know it yet!

So we go to pt, then a little bit of shopping that was needed, and back home. I was doing the same thing, banging on stujust in case. Nothing! But what about the 2 pair of garage shoes? I still had a 3 pound hammer in my hand, having banged on all sorts of crap making as much noise as possible, so I thumped the first of 4 shoes. Nothing.

Thumped the 2nd shoe, again nothing!

Thumped the 3rd shoe, and yet again, nothing! So by this point I'm figuring that it's not going to be in the shoes and I had chased it out. WRONG!

Didn't quite get a good thump on the 4th shoe. It was in the 4th shoe. Then it hit the floor running! Looked like a cartoon character with legs windmilling trying to get traction. Then FINALLY out the door!

I threw the hammer at it, hitting the engine hoist instead, which scared the little thing even more. It finally made it out into the yard, I got the garage door down before it came back, and haven't opened it since. Gonna be a little tough taking Maggie to pt tomorrow if I don't open the garage door...

 

Look at the brighter side! You're not going to wear out the 400 unnecessarily that way! By the time you get an A to house it, you'll have a vintage engine...

 

Either build a better mousetrap (chipmunk trap, in this case), or start carrying a .22 pistol with pepper shot in it... Both are likely cheaper than a garage cat. You might have some odd holes in the Whatever if you miss, though.

 

I live trap the little buggers and take them on a road trip (price of gas may be prohibiting factor)
and let someone else enjoy them.

 

An update of sorts. Been puttering around on the Whatever project, just little stuff that needs to be done (there's so much of that), nothing worth pictures. And I haven't finished with tearing down the 327, or sorting through the save vs the goes. And cleaning up the garage! But that's not the update...

Chipmonks! I think the problem is diminishing. The neighbor's feral cats are also looking prosperous these days, both seem to be a little bit larger, and since the neighbor has managed to trap and spay them, I imagine it has something to do with their food intake. Also we've had a fox around for a couple of days. Haven't seen many around the garage side of the yard, so something is helping.

I'm counting that as progress! That and searching for a better lathe... Just what I need, more stuff to fit in the blivet!

 

Real progress today! Got way further along on the seat mounts. And the roll bar. If a picture is worth a thousand words, here's 8,000 give or take...
Okay so I can't count. 10 pictures, 10,000 words. And that's all I'm going to say about that! Ask questions if the pictures are not self explanatory. I'm hot and tired, and need a shower and supper.

 

Next batch of pictures:
I hate it when my fingers don't want to cooperate! Anyway here goes.

1st picture from the rear, overall view of the the support hoop and the rear braces for the seat backs. 2nd picture a little closer view showing the seat back braces in better detail. Looking closely you can see the parts that bolt to the seats, and the tabs welded to the support hoop. When finished they will be bolted together with grade 5 bolts, to allow some give if there's ever a n oh $#!+!

Next, some cross bracing for the body hoop, to add support for the roll bar right leg. Then pull it all apart and put the body back on and start the next couple of projects on it...

 

Progress, looking good Dave!

 

Nice work!!

 

Thanks guys! Tomorrow back willing, some cross bracing, then body back on. And soon, got to make a clean area for redoing the T10. I think I've got all the parts needed, now just any seals and gaskets, cleaning, and reassemble it.

So until tomorrow...

 

Hey, things are coming along nicely! Slow 'n' steady now so you can be super speedy down the road

 

Dave, you should of mentioned gaskets, I seen a set while shuffling for something else. I will have to look to see if its a full set. Probably don't have any seals though.

 

Pedals! I don't really like the pedals coming up from under the floor, never have. This morning I came across a couple pictures of Indy Roadsters without their clothes on.

One of the pictures showed how that particular car dealt with the same issue, hanging pedals from the firewall. I don't want the master cylinders in the engine bay, and this particular car had the cylinders under the cowl.

So that got me thinking about how to fabricate a hanging pedal assembly with the cylinders under the cowl of the body. I have a very stiff double firewall, influenced by Marty Strode's double skinned firewall idea. Only made from 1/4-inch thick aluminum tooling plate and braced to the engine and frame. So hanging pedals from it will be just fine. Like the t.v. commercials where the couple say they have the perfect house, except they have an animal in the attic, I have a dash to deal with.

Which then leads me to how do I get to the reservoir on the cylinders. I make a removable dash. Which leads to how to make it easily removable. If the body was a real Henry body, made of steel, I'd plaigerize what Marty did on the Spaulding roadster replica, make it hinged. But I'm stuck trying to figure out how to do it with the fiberglass body.

So hambers HELP! All ideas are welcome and may be plaigerized at will...

 

Dave,
I have exactly the same dilemma. One solution may be to use master cylinders with remote reservoirs.
I'm also thinking of just having the gage panel fold down, inward toward the steering wheel.

My build will probably be a bit less refined than yours. Exposed masters will not be an issue for me.