Hi, I've got some questions regarding running a Model AV8 with mechanical brakes, maybe anybody can help me. I already owend an AV8, but with juice brakes. Now I want to start a new project, therefore I bought a new chassis with stock front and rear axle and mechnical brakes. Now I want to check, if it's realizable to run an AV8 with stock brakes? I've found some great idea's/building's/information's here regarding dropped axles, drum brakes etc. I already used the search function, but I didn't find a matching thread. I'm an absoulutly newby regarding mechanical brakes. Best regards from northern Germany Phil
I built and drove a 1930 coupe that ran a 21 stud flathead and mechanical brakes about 13 years ago. I ran 32 brakes front and rear. That car was real fun. I drove it almost daily in the summer and commuted it to work on the highway about 20 miles each way.
Ensure all rods, clevises and bushes are in top condition. Change out the pressed steel drums for cast iron drums with matching shoes and install a Flathead Teds floater kit, adjust the whole system (there is a youtube vid.) and you will be impressed how good mechanical brakes can be.
You need the right brake shoe lining material... Woven not molded....And the right traffic conditions that was had 75 years ago not like todays bumper to bumper at 70 MPH...If you really want mechanical brakes go back to the wagons with blocks rubbing on the wheel...
I'm running mechanical brakes on my '34 PU. They work fine. Just follow what others have said and adjust them properly and make sure all the parts are in good working condition. I'll third the motion on adding the brake floater pins. I don't have them, but hear that they work great.
Stock model A brakes work really well if every moving part is in top condition. Absolutely no slop in any part. I second the suggestion to use cast iron drums. The original drums are prone to overheating under heavy use and they go "bell mouthed" and lose much of their ability to stop the car. Floater kits are a good idea but I've yet to find much advantage over the stock system when all parts are perfect and properly adjusted. As mentioned, use woven linings. The molded linings don't have the friction needed.
Well, Ford didn't stop using mechanical brakes with the Model A. There were a lot of Ford V8 cars built with mechanical brakes. I think 39 was the first year for hydraulics.
And Plymouth had hydraulic brakes when the brand was introduced in 1928. The point being, even 93 years ago the automotive world knew hydraulics are better. Have mechanicals magically gotten better over the years? As EVERY pro-mechanical-brakes poster has stated :" as long as all parts are PERFECT and adjusted PERFECTLY and MAINTAINED...". I don't understand why anyone would want to invest just as much money, time and effort to run a system that demands babysitting, and still remains "iffy" in TODAY'S traffic and driving conditions. When I hit the pedal, I want to stop, not slow down, or be pulled to one side, just before the collision. Even the revered Henry was convinced to modernize for safety!
I run '32-34 brakes on the front of my Tourer, and I'm really impressed with the '35 brakes I've fitted to my T Coupe. Teds floaters in both of them. Stock rear brakes although the Coupe has cast iron rear drums too. Tuned four bangers though, not V8's. So lighter weight and only about 80hp at most so I'm only hauling down from 7o-ish mph not the ton...
Have you ever owned, driven or maintained a car with mechanical brakes? It's a fair question. Were they better or just cheaper? This should be the case with any brake system. Where does this line of thinking lead? Just what is "iffy" on TODAYS roads and who decides? The same can be said for...single pot masters...4 wheel drums...crumple zones (lack of)...metal dashes...gas tanks and where they are located...performance modifications on and on and on... To be fair I don't own a car with mechanical brakes. With that said many would consider what I drive "iffy" although they are well maintained and work like they are supposed to do. As far as a car, it needs to be driven where if functions best and not exceed the abilities of the design. If someone has a car with mechanical brakes and they take the time to learn the system and maintain it...more power to them. If they say it has good brakes and functions well I'll take their word. If that's what they want to spend their money, I'm cool with that. It isn't my money. As far as Henry Ford, Ford's primary motivation was the "Buck". The Model T was obsolete in 1909 and it was laughable in 1927. That was kind of the point. He could and did make a buck, many of them, off a simple conservative design. The reasons Ford went to Hydraulic in 1939 was primarily over money, not safety. Ford actually had an advertisement that said something like..."Metal from the Pedal to the Wheel!" 1. Public perception of Ford cars being "old fashioned" thus losing sales. Perception is not always reality. When that perception affects the bottom line, it makes it's own reality. 2. Hydraulic was simple and cheap. Less skill, less labor, less parts ....Mo-Money.
Cast drums make it safe... Skidding tires with juice or mech, doesnt matter... Your skidding anyways... How are you getting any more braking out of it? Your not... I run Mech on all my Model A... This was a vintage hotrod built many moons ago... They set up the pedal setup off a brace going from trans down to catch the wishbone ball, and back up. Worked like a charm... Pulled hills in this car, 30% grades etc... up ad down... No issues ever... My banger coupe I just built has 32 mech brakes up front, huge upgrade in materials and stopping power. I agree with everyone else on the floater kit, but more importantly than that is getting the shoes bedded to your drums, I put a self adhesive sandpaper on the inside of the drum, and turn it letting it arc the shoes to the drums 100%... Then go on and do the adjustment procedure...
I had a friend (RIP) with a '30 roadster with mech brakes that would put you into the windshield! As all his stuff, the brakes were in perfect condition. 70 up hill was easy. My point is, most people replace old worn out mech brakes with new or rebuilt hyd and say. "See how much better the hyd works?" If they had CORRETLY rebuilt mech brakes with cast iron drums and compared them to hyd it would be a different story. Mech never leak after sitting for awhile. If one can slide all 4 wheels in a panic stop, how much more do ya need? They need proper adjustment and most of us are lazy and I'm guilty. Some of mine have hyd, some are mech. I'm gonna put '32 brakes on my '31 roadster pickup. Dave
My European deuce ran a flatty v8 with mechanical brakes and the worked fine. On my 1930 av8 i have juice brakes and the stopping power is about the same , the difference is in how hard you have to step on the brake pedal. They will never be disk brakes but they both stop your car.
Many thanks to all for the discussion and helpful tips. Good to hear that it works good (with correct good parts and the correct adjustment). Some of you running mechanical brakes, but someone running the '28-'31 brakes, if I understand correctly stubbsrodandcustoms did it?! Is the only different to later mechanical brakes (32-38) is the diameter of 11" instead of 12" or there other major things? In round about 2 weeks I will pick up the chassis. Many thanks
Henry used them up until 1939 for the above stated reasons. V8's and 4 Bangers. YES they are as good as you make them.
Correct, the 28-31 brakes are fine as long as you do the cast drums, the stamped have all sorts of weird issues that arise... And yes the 32-38 are 12" and that's alot more pad surface area, those years were designed for heavier cars, cast iron drums standard also.. If you set them up right, you will be a believer... The tricks in the adjustment... Its not just adjusting the adjuster wedge, but also adjusting out the free play in the rod that actuates the main wedge... That is where so many Mech brake setups are off that I have fixed...
As a matter of fact... YES, I owned and drove a Model A with mechanical brakes!! Thank you for asking!! I must admit though, it was years ago when parts for mechanical brakes were available just about everywhere, and most systems (including mine) were a combination of old, refurbished and new parts. After careful evaluation of component condition, cost and safety, I converted to hydraulics. (Kind of the same conclusion traditional hotrodders of the '40s, '50s, and early '60s had done... I guess they were misguided as well) Henry didn't change to hydraulics for money. Quite the opposite: he opposed the change because he was of the "let them eat cake" and "it's been good for 30 years" mindset. Ford was more or less forced to change because the industry and public deemed that mechanicals were inferior. Time and technology marches on! Hey, it's your nickel, but it's my (and many others' ) safety, just let us know when you're on the road so I can avoid you!
As you can see, this is a topic that gets people to jump to one side or the other. I will not state my own opinion, but instead ask two very pertinent questions: 1. What wheel/tire are you planning on running? 2. What are the laws in Germany regarding this hot rod build? I have heard they are quite strict about safety items and engine swaps, things we in the US do not suffer.
Mechanical brakes are a labor of love, another reason to tinker on the hot rod instead of sitting on the couch.
The questions was, if there any problems to run that combination, not what is the "better" option. There are many topics, with different opinions. If mechs needs more inspections, no problem for me, I like it. Mech brakes are new territory for me, I get some great tips here, I'm very thankful for this. I would like to run 6.00x16 front and 7.00x16 on the back. Saftey must be given, like almost everywere and I'm interested in saftey too.
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