For more than the last four years I have been trying to improve the brakes on my 1954 Chevrolet. It has been the most difficult problem that I have worked on in more than 50 years of working on hot rods. Presently the car has disc on the front and drum brakes on the rear. At one time I had 4 wheel disc. It uses a 2 stage booster and the universal Corvette master cylinder. I believe I own every type of brake bleeding tool that is offered and I have a system of gauges to measure pressures throughout the system. I have followed every thread on this subject and offered my thoughts on some of them. Yesterday I removed the very expensive pads (the latest greatest) on the front and replaced them with the cheapest organic pads I could find. Although the brakes are so much better and the best so far, I am still not happy but I am getting there. I had noticed in the past that there was never any brake dust on my wheels. My daily driver always requires me to use a special cleaner to remove the dust but not this car. I think the very hard pads might work best on racing applications but it seems the softer pads are working best for me. Maybe someone else has some thoughts on how this improved my brakes. This is an ongoing project. We will see how this plays out in the future.
I had terrible brakes on my 36 coupe for 15 years .... power disk/drums. I replaced everything... tired different masters and boosters. The master is located under the floor. Finally got great brakes by replacing the vacuum booster with a Hydroboost out of a Astro van. By just replacing it only, the brakes went from terrible to incredible. I check my vacuum at the booster and it seemed ok. I think the issue I could not supply enough vacuum through a 3/8 inch hard line 6 feet away.
What is the issue? Front or rear? What are the front calipers from. What's the piston bore diameter. What's the master cylinder from? What's the bore diameter? I'd ditch the booster any use a master cylinder that's matched to the caliper piston bore diameter. Big and little reservoir for non power disc / drum. EDIT: I recalled the last thread on master cylinder size where we determined that big and little reservoir isn't needed on disc / drum. Just keep it full.
I'm using Car Quest pads on my front discs, have 12,000 miles on the swap and it stops great. I run a 1" bore Ford style master, drums out back. No booster.
I did some tests a few years ago on my daily Ranger. At my local Oreillys we pulled EVERY level of pads off the shelf to sample. The cheapest were Indian made and looked like pressed Charcoal briquetes. Didn't even bother with them but i did try each of the other 5? levels. The best I found were the cheapest USA made ones which fell middle of the road pricewise. They out performed all the pricier ones. Just a plain semi metallic
My 40 has GM metric calipers on the front with normal pads, drums on the 8" rear, 1" Chrysler remote fill MC on a dual 7" booster mounted under the floor and it has always stopped very well.
I would have to look to find my notes but as I remember the readings were in excess of 1100 psi. Which should have been more than enough to stop the car. I have installed similar systems to mine many times over the years. I do not remember having any major problems. This car car has been a nightmare. Some of the problems were caused by poor quality new parts. An example is that I replace two master cylinder/booster combinations. Those units were sold by a major company that specializes in aftermarket brake systems. Both components failed in these two units. At least now I have marginal brakes. I can lock up the wheels on gravel but not on asphalt. I will continue to experiment with different solutions. Todays post was to state that the softer, cheaper , disc pads made my brakes better.
Answers to these ^^^^ would be helpful [add to that ......What is the pedal ratio] This is another HAMB "mind reading" thread! A cry for help! but getting information is like pulling teeth. I need to start a thread asking for help because my latest hotrod project [below] won't go! "I just can't seem to figure out the problem"
Actually I was not asking for help. I was trying to say that I had considered and tested the obvious things that could be wrong and I found that going to softer pads enabled me to fine tune the system and make the brakes work correctly. Maybe I could go back to the better pads now and I could make them work correctly. In all the reading, of other post about this subject, I did not remember seeing the idea of trying organic brake pads. I know they will make more brake dust but they do stop the car. Today, after further adjusting the free travel on the bake pedal, and adjusting the rear brakes a little tighter, I was able to lock up the brakes on pavement. I had not been able to do this previously. The usual things like pedal ratio, piston size, brake line pressures, had been covered in the past. To my knowledge the idea of a softer brake pad material had not. Once I got a brake system that started working I could make adjustments to fine tune it for better performance. Most brake systems I have installed have been painless. This one was not. A very simple solution to a problem that has troubled me for a long time. I wanted to save someone else the grief. Although I had asked for advice on this subject in the past, this post was meant to propose another solution for others who have had these problems. This is the reason I did not include complete details of the system in this post.
My son has always bought the cheapest softest pads he could find. Never complained about braking and never ever replaced a rotor. A few of his cars had 200,000 miles.
If the softer pads helped, what do you have for rear shoes? Those small diameter boosters and the "corvette style" masters sure have a huge number braking problems connected with them. I wouldn't put another one of those setups on anything again. Correct the pedal ratio and eliminate the small diameter booster, and choose a non-corvette master and I suspect the brake issues goes away.
I’ve been improving the brakes on my 37. I had plans for some changes this year, but life got in the way and the parts are still on my bench in the garage. Softer pads will grab more, wear faster, and may generate more brake “dust”. Harder pads won’t grab as well cold, may improve as they warm up, will wear slower or wear the rotor more, and should make less dust. Some pads need to be bedded in to work correctly. Others claim to be ready out of the box. There’s a lot of variables, assuming your line pressure is good, and the system is working correctly. Once you no longer have a “stock” system, you’re kinda on your own to find what works well in your car.
Something worth considering : when the factory designs a brake system it must work for a wide range if loads , I'd guess 1500 pounds weight variance in passengers & cargo plus a tow rating , another possibly large variable . The point being ,these systems could be used in a wide range if vehicles & still be considered within design limits . I.E. they aren't all that specific. A sedan with a system designed for 2500# curb weight Should be fine for another 2000+-# .
I went thru similar problems on a couple cars. Finally I found a guy who seemed to know what he was doing. Started with checking the pressure at each wheel. Then to changing pads and/or shoes. He said a couple things, no proof, but he made it work. He said a lot of “systems” come with pads that are too hard. Typically sold as “last as long as you own the car” by the chain stores. They last, but they’re really hard. Most people never use the brakes enough to know the difference, and the boost makes up for it. He also said “race pads are for racing”. They don’t work until they’re hot. I’ve made that mistake too. Cold stops were full pressure. So I don’t know what the truth is, but it’s not simple for those of us who don’t really understand all the factors involved. Comments above seem that it’s not just me.
I put new calipers on the front of my old convert this spring while doing a bunch of routine maintenance and just took the cheap pads. It always had somewhat ho-hum brakes but they worked well enough. Now it stops like crazy but puts a lot of pad dust on my front wheels. It just makes me polish my Halibrands more often. WZ JUNK and I talked about his problems with his '54 Chevy and I gotta say he approached the investigation about as well as anyone can. I ve built a lot of cars but I sorta feel like I've had a guardian angel...have never had any significant problems other than tracking down leaks in more recent builds. Brake lines and brass fittings aren't what they used to be.
I'd say miker98038 is on track. I was thinking the same thing that I quoted out of his post as I read through the thread. Lynn
Really improved my stopping power when I 'found-out' I needed a GM"stepped" MC to work with my S-10 calipers. (couple of HAMB'ers turned me on to the MC! thanx again guyz). When I was a part-time counter-jockey at Poop Boyz I always recommended the cheapest grade of pad instead of the latest whiz-bang premium platinum super-duper pads. Cheap means softer. As far as the high zoot ones not making brake dust, well.......the dust is just a lighter shade. (not as visible) They make dust just a lighter shade and since they are harder they don't 'scrub-off' as much. (that's why they don't stop as well!!) Think about it.........they gotta make dust! 6sally6
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