I have new quarter panels to install on my 1937 Ford coupe. I have been thinking about overlapping the panel 1/2" and using a panel bond(glue) instead of welding it and avoiding the warping and grinding. Anyone done this?
After the filler, primer and paint shrink, which they will do, you will be able to see that flanged seam. Butt welding is the best way. If you're not comfortable doing it, get someone to show you how. There are lots of YouTube videos showing the process. Practice on some scrap before starting on the real thing. Remember this, all welds shrink. In order to prevent warpage, you must hammer them on dolly and stretch them back out. It you take your time, don't overheat the panel and stretch your welds back out, you should end up with a good seam.
This is the correct answer. Car manufacturers DO NOT flange and glue seams across large panels. They glue complete panels on around the perimeter of the panel like door skins, complete bed sides, complete quarter panels, roofs etc.
One thing to remember, if you are going to mig weld the panels, use .023 diameter wire as it takes less heat to melt it. If you use .023 wire, you have to change the rollers in your welder to .023 and also use a liner designed for .023 wire. The wire is so thin that it will "birdnest" easily if you don't use the correct liner. Also use an .023 tip. You can get away with using a larger liner and not changing it when you use larger diameter wire, but the .023 needs to be .023..............at least thats my experience with it.
There are several threads here that talk about hammer welding techniques (for areas where you have access to the back of the panel). Not all MIG wire is meant to be hammered as it quite hard and can be somewhat brittle. Those same threads also talk about softer MIG wires like ER70-S3 or ESAB Easy Grind. I would also recommend checking out a you tube channel called Fitzee's Fabrications. He has a technique he calls cut and butt. Best of luck!
Dang. Cheap and easy. Very little skill needed. Yep OEs use glue. Even sail panels can be spliced with glue on a few OEs along with a few other places. Flanging a patch panel isn’t the same as that. New cars have significant more inner structure or rigidity to the bodies. The garbage instructions on what you can bond that come with the glues are completely trash. An OE name advertised on those products only signal that an OE uses their products. The repair methods with the glue are worthless. They even say so when you read the fine print. Welding creates warpage. No big deal. If fit correctly and butt welded all warpage can be removed. any warpage caused by welding is simply removed by hammering and dolly work. I’ve found very few places on old cars I couldn’t reach the backside.
There was a big lawsuit in Dallas a few years ago over bonding roof panels on. One came off in a accident and they sued the dealership and won and sued the body man and won and the manufacturer stop recommending bonding they had better lawyers.
Studied that. The body shop wasn’t very smart. The tech claimed he wasn’t paid to weld it yet the estimate had the full roof replacement time. The shop was sponsored by a dealer for the car in question so they had access to the roof replacement procedure. The manufacture had zero bond procedures for that car. The instructions for the glue was the only place they had for fully gluing in a roof. 3m has changed their wording since this incident. The roof was fully glued. I’ve used glue for roofs but every one stated to either weld under the front and rear glass flange or rivet (not the hardware store rivet) and/or also glue. we’re building old stuff here. When you look at 40s even through the 80s factory repair procedures, you’ll see some crazy things. Brass, overlap splices, avoiding lead seams .... all kinds of stuff. Using glue on an old car like being suggested (in my worthless opinion) probably won’t hurt much other that a potential shadow that will probably show up later. But welding is such a better method.
On older stuff like we work on, when talking patch panels/sheet metal repairs, etc., there’s NO substitute for welding. Period.
On a side note. A couple years ago, I looked at a project car. Had new qtrs, roof and rear body. All glued. I walked away. If the patience and skill wasn’t there for those easy panels, imagine how bad the unseen stuff is. “But but new cars have glue and the glue instructions said I could” New cars have seams designed to hold glue and most also rivet or weld with the glue plus have more structure. It’s not the same.
I use panel bond on a regular basis, but like Anthony said, it's always in conjunction with properly placed welds.
I glued the floor out of a late model GM pickup bed in my Model A pickup in 1999 and it was still in good shape after sitting in the driveway for 15 years. I also bolted thru it to mount the bed, used it as a daily driver. I mig weld in patch panels in because that's what I learned to do years ago, guess either is fine if it's done right.
To add to the to do or not to do the glue thing conversation I will include a few photos for clarity. This was not my preferred method for repairing the quarter panels on my buddies 54 Merc. But there was a lot of concern from both of us about my ability to weld the quarters on with out warping them too much. Was it easier or quicker ? No! Did it come out well ? Yes! Has it held up well without showing the repair? So far it looks great. It has only been two or three years since it was done though. I have successfully butt welded a lot of panels using a lot of patience and low heat before and since and still prefer welding to this gluing process but it works imho. A gluing flange was added to the inside of the outer skin. Cleaned up and ready for gluing. Glue was applied to both sides. Sheet metal screw were used to secure the panel and later ground off. Two years later with no sign of highs and lows or warped panels.
I used it recently on a c-10 bed to add wheel arch sections. Seems to look okay but I haven't painted it yet. And the truck is sort of a beater. And I suck at butt welding. I used sheet metal screws to cinch it down. Ground the screw heads off and ground the overlap shoulder down.
We can't talk about MII front ends which are a staple of hotrodding, even traditional rods, so why can we talk about gluing sheet metal?
Many years ago I knew a guy that had the roof filled on his 34 Ford sedan when he had it painted, he just assumed the guy would weld it in, only a few years later it started showing cracks and bubbles around the perimeter of the panel, when he had a qualified body man check it out they found that it had been glued on along with a lot of bondo. It was very expensive to rectify.
The M2 is spelled out by the bosses here. Plus it’s a post 65 deal anyway. It’s a staple for post 65 hot rodding. This place focuses on (grey area many times) pre 65 mods. Bonding panels has been around a long time. I haven’t heard anyone say it can’t be discussed but there are many discussions on its practicality or final result.
@fitzee is the best..I believe he is a member here , but hasn't been around since '17. He is a very talented guy.
You know what? For over forty years I've always wondered why they hammer welds on panels joins. I've never tried it, so never questioned it, and your post answered that for me beautifully, and made perfect sense. Thank you. It used to drive me nuts: Why hammer the weld afterwards? Was it to flatten it to reduce grinding/sanding time? Just one of those things I never could figure out. I learned something today!
As to glueing panels being ok here ? I don’t think we stepped over the line ,,,,but I do think we stepped on the line !!!
Evertime I consider it, I decide against it. Putting rockers on my daily driver late model truck now, pretty common to flange and glue them. F* it. I have a welder.
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