Technical Cylinder sleeve "Liner" removal

I have searched here and allover the internet for details on how to remove a damaged cylinder sleeve from a modern V8 engine and there is surprisingly little out there. Specifically as it relates to sleeves that are pressed in against a flange at the bottom of the bore. I have , many times, replaced sleeves where there is a flange at the top and the sleeve extends below the bore. Anyone care to share details on how to pull this off?
Thanks,
Steve

 

Bore it until it is 0.005" thick.

Then you should be able to deform it enough to take it out.

 

You may have to cut it out with a boring bar. Good chance it was coated with sleeve retainer so driving it out would be a nightmare.Might be cheaper to find a good block.

 

Now, I don't know if this will work, may could damage the block or it may just not work but, here goes.
An easy way to remove a bearing race from a bearing cap that you cannot get behind the race to drive it out is to weld a bead around the inside of the race, when it cools the race will fall out. As it cools it makes the race shrink. Can you do that to this sleeve? I don't know, the correct way would be to cut it out like was said.

 

Offset the boring bar 1/8 inch and bore the high side in small increments. When you get close to going through, the sleeve will collapse.

 

I’ve heard of guys welding beads in the sleeve to shrink em.
I haven’t ever tried that.

 

In theory that might work but it is the wrong way to do it.
Gimpyshotrods gave the correct answer, bore it to within .005 and then you should be able to collapse it. A skilled automotive machinist may actually go closer than that.

 

Yep

 

I guess I have been doing it wrong for 300+ sleeves.

 

I'd like to know what modern v8 has press in sleeves from the factory. Most are just some kind of plating or spray metalizing. Diesel?

 

Is that just taking a portion of the sleeve down? I can see that working, the press fit I suppose collapses the sleeve “over” itself?

 

When you get close to going through, the installed compression of the sleeve will usually cause the sleeve to shrink and it will become loose and can be removed by hand.

 

I’ve got these marks on the bottom of a sleeve.
One guy suggested the boring bar chattered.

 

I still have a liner out of a 400 Cummins my dad had that the fella came over and did a in frame on it. I wasn’t there, but he did as you mentioned. I kept the liner (just one of the 6) because it worked as a seal driver for something at the time.
I don’t think I’d have the balls to try it though

 

Welding in or around cylinder blocks and heads used to seem crazy? to me, until an older machinist said, "Just weld it up, Mike! Just like you weld stuff. Easy as hell."
I stick welded a nut onto a broken flathead head stud, cooled and it came right out.
Many other operations over the years...First time is the first step.
Now I'll wire weld anything in my way...carefully, but no worries.
I believe a bead in that sleeve is worth two in the bush. (something like that...but it'd work.)

 

Thanks for all the experience you guys shared here. I have a scrap block I was practicing on. I tried welding a ring of 1x1/4 flat shock inside a sleeve and then using a round disk from a sleeve puller I have, I tried to beat the sleeve out but no luck. Maybe I'll try again using the puller the way it was intended. I was hoping for a DIY solution just as a learning exercise. I agree boring a thin spot would be preferred and likely the best solution technically.

I look forward to hearing any additional ideas. You guys are the best.......
Steve

 

Just make a weld pass on the sleeve without the flat stock : the flat stock locks the ends to the sleeve & doesn't let the weld "shrink" the sleeve.

 

It is quite possible to weld a sleeve out. I have done many. I hesitate to recommend it because the weld technique is not normal. Laying the block on it's end helps but a vertical downpass will work also. You need a fast freezing rod such as 6011 or Pipeliner Arc80. The main thing to do is, TRAVEL FAST with about 90 amps and 1/8 rod, AC or DC doesn't matter.
The sleeve is cast iron so it is very easy to blow through. If you do blow, or even get close to blowing through, you will have an instant hard spot in the base metal. Boring bars and hones do not like hard spots.

As long as you have a practice block, have at it. It is the only way you learn this stuff.

 

I have used a die grinder to cut .090" thick sleeves out before. I was real careful when I got close. I have used the offset bar method with complete success also. Most sleeves are between 1.2 to 2.5 thousandths press fit so that's why your pulling method didn't work. This is another thread where people read something they haven't tried and think that's a poor idea. People were repairing things in different ways long before us. That being said, what works for one may not work for another.

 

Being from a rural area, the weld method is how I’ve heard a lot of older guys getting them out. Even in engines with factory sleeves. Buzz boxes were common.and the coal mines had plenty of rods.
Proper pulling or boring equipment wasn’t an option.

 

Pete has been doing this shit longer than most of us have been alive. LISTEN TO HIM!

 

I forgot to mention, if one pass doesn't loosen it, try 2 or 3 spaced a couple inches apart.

 

There may be a massive difference between your skill at this than the guy who is on his second block that he ever bored with the old Rotller that he bought at the close out sale of the old machine shop in town. I'm saying for the majority of these guys centering the bar in the sleeve and cutting it out just as if you were boring the cylinder is a lot safer method than trying to do something that takes some serious knowledge to accomplish.
It's not the easiest task to teach someone how to set a boring bar up to properly bore a hole where it should be and is going to be far more difficult to teach them how to correctly set it up to offset bore the hole.

 

back when I worked at the machine shop, I never seemed to have any trouble boring them just a little off center. (without even trying!)

 

There is an old technique of removing a sleeve from a motorcycle cylinder by heating the cylinder then sticking a wet sponge soaked in ice water in it to shrink the sleeve. Maybe you could do something like that, possibly with dry ice.

 

LOL!

Ben

 

I’ve seen your work then.

 

I've used the weld technique to remove bushings from blind holes, in industrial applications, even took out control arm bushings this way. Rubber had rotted out from oil soaking in them, so just a couple of beads and they dropped out. A buddy of mine replaced a liner in his old tractor engine, with weld. It does work.

 

Weld or torch(heat) is my go to for bearing races

 

What a way to start the day!! A technical thread that's not only informative but funny. Thanks guys