57 ford with Y block and what I believe to be a ford 3spd manual. concern: Clacking noise intermittently and low speeds and even coasting in neutral backwards (out of the driveway). Also kicks out of second coasting. I know the first time I drained the oil from the trans there was metal and I’m almost certain there was brass. what iv done: Operated car on lift and can verify noise from trans while in gear at road speeds. I removed the trans tonight. Set it on the bench and verified I was getting roughness when I turned the input shaft. Also don’t recall the 1/r shift lever moving easily in both directions by hand. I removed the side cover to take a look. Unfortunately both shift forks came out with the cover and fell so as far as orientation goes, I have no idea what direction they were originally in. I noticed the r or 1sr or idler gear for 1/r was pretty chewed but everything else seems ok to my very untrained eye. honestly could not duplicate my clacking/ growling noise with the side cover off until I sat there and spun the input shaft severs time and watched the 1/r gear work it’s way towards the idler gear for 1/r and there was the noise. Which also makes sense as to why the gear is chewed. I reinstalled the cover with the shift forks installed and the only way I can duplicate the exact way the 1/r lever felt is only if I put the shift fork in backwards. And at that point either 1st or revers is hard to get because the shift fork won’t travel far enough to properly engage. But I can make it happen if I try. my question for you guys is should I reinstall the trans assuming I fixed it or proceed to do something else. I’m honestly wondering if the shift fork was in backwards and or maybe poorly adjusted some how to keep the gears touching. And maybe kicking out of 2nd is an adjustment thing? The synchros look alright??
The detent mechanism in the cover should prevent the low/rev slider from touching other gears when the neutral, 2nd, or high are selected. I'm not sure if you can put the forks in backwards, it's been a long time since I had one of these apart. You really can't tell synchronizer condition without taking it apart although the blocking teeth look pretty good. The roughness you describe when turning the input shaft makes me think you may have some bad bearings. You need to get a manual if you take it apart. It's not hard, but there are a lot of needle bearings.
I don’t understand this piece, (but I don’t understand much about gearboxes) - is something missing ? my old ‘36 would jump out of gear, as you describe, then it wouldn’t go into 2nd. Just a broken washer. ( thrust washer ? ) anyway, here is the most helpful part of this post….. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_drawings_trans.htm
This is a video of the exact noise I hear while driving and if you look close at the little gear, it’s pretty rough on the edge. https://youtube.com/shorts/SG1X58Z29pU?feature=share
The clicking sound as you rotate the gears isn’t necessarily a problem…..the low/reverse slider gear is slightly rear of its neutral position and thus raking the teeth of the small reverse idler gear. Normally, the fork for this gear holds it in between the various gears when the transmission is in neutral. The picture you included of the forks fitted to the gears shows the correct orientation of the low/reverse fork on that gear. I suspect that the shifter linkage may need adjustment to the true neutral position. Also, check the shifter housing to make sure that the two shifter shafts click into their three positions properly (a spring and two balls hold the shafts into position). Because of the interlock feature, you can’t shift either shaft to a gear position if the other one is not in the neutral position. The picture of the synchro insert shows it in its normal position….no problem from what can be seen in the photo. There are three of them and you can only inspect them properly when it’s all apart. Almost certainly the brass ring for second gear is close to worn out. The front ring is for high gear and generally doesn’t see as much wear. They should both be replaced if you’re going to refresh the transmission. There is some wear on the small steel synchro teeth on that input shaft gear. Popping out of second gear is a common problem for these units after many miles. Aside from closing up any end play looseness with new snap rings and thrust washers, you could possibly need a new second gear and/or a mainshaft. Adjusting the shifter linkage is a first easy step to rule out that as a problem though.
That clicking sound is exactly what I hear driving the car. Some days it’s louder then others. Some times coasting in neutral it doesn’t make the noise, some times more throttle will cause the noise. As far as the picture showing the the correct orientation of the forks, that’s after I put them back in. I have no idea how the rear one was in prior to removal. BUT I did intentionally put the cover on with the fork going in both directions. If you install it “backwards” it does hold the Main shaft gear further rear word. min going to take some measurements of the trans so I can shop for a new one… but then put this one back in and see what happens. I was expecting missing teeth or missing bearing balls on the output shaft the way this thing sounded. as far as shifter adjustment goes… now that I know what I’m looking for, I’m going to check that with the car in neutral, the shift levers on the trans are not preloaded and actually in the center locations.
That is a spring loaded detent that holds the sliding clutch in place, there are three of them on the gear. And helps the synronizers work. Bones
The little metal piece that sets back a bit in the picture, is spring loaded into a detent in the shift collar. When you begin to make a shift the metal piece moves forward with the collar and presses against the brass ring. The inside of the ring has grooves in it and it is conical shaped. Initially the contact "clocks" the ring so the teeth on the ring do not align with the teeth on the gear. Further movement of the collar allows contact with the pointed teeth on the ring. As it is forced against the spinning gear it acts like a brake either slowing the gear down or speeding it up. This increases the braking action until the gear speed and collar speed match. Once the speeds match, the brass ring moves over (un-clocks) and allows the shift collar to lock the gear to the mainshaft. With that said, worn brass rings will not cause the transmission to jump out of gear. If they are worn the gears will grind during a shift. Unwanted play, worn parts, input shaft miss-alignment, bad bearings, worn shifter detents will all cause a transmission to jump out of gear.
So studied it a bit more today. For what ever reason I think the 1st/r gear set is just too close to each other. But I can’t figure out why. I put the trans back together and found that as the input shaft is spun, I get my rattle noise. If I preload the 1st/r lever towards 1st, noise goes away. If I preload towards revers, there is practically gear contact instantly. Doesn’t appear to be a ton of wear on the fork. Included a video
The rust pits on the gear teeth and the wear on the gear engagement teeth are more concerning to me. More investigation is needed. Do you still feel the roughness when turning the input shaft? IF so time to pull it apart and check the bearings.
Have you checked the side cover,,,,,are the detent functions working correctly ? If the detent is not locating the shaft in a neutral position,,,,,,it will be almost engaged . Looks like the gear is too close to the reverse idler,,,,,and why the slightest movement causes immediate reverse engagement . Just an idea . Tommy
Detents seem to work flawlessly. A lot of pressure when moved by hand and they look nice and crisp on the inside. Don’t show any signs of wear
The noise sounds like gear teeth hitting each other, is there wear on the 1st/reverse fork or on the cover lock outs? Looking at the brass synchro's they are pretty worn, spin second gear around and look at the engagement teeth for wear there are a couple in the image that would make me look at all of them for wear and looseness of the gear on the shaft. Check the reverse Idler gear for play also. As simple as those trans are if it was mine I'd pull it apart and go through it
I am not very knowledgeable about these ,,,,it was worth a guess anyway . Mac VP is the man on these transmissions,,,,,he has done a ton of old Fords . Probably the top man in his field ! Maybe he can help . Tommy
Included a pic of the fork. Doesn’t look excessive to me. Still has a lot of shape to it. And the detent system seems to operate normally and doesn’t appear worn out .
I’m wonder if my idler gear is in backwards. Is that even possible. Here is a screen shot of a YouTube video with a 58 trans and a picture of mine.
How much play is in the gear front to back? There should be a thrust washer on each side of the gear.
So I blew this thing apart and looked at everything. I swear this thing looks like it’s low miles (not new, but low miles) like a fresh rebuild. All the brass bushings have almost no wear and there was still clean grease in the input shaft where the output shaft is supported. I really think this is not a natural problem but more like maybe wrong parts installed somewhere. My grandfather got the car in trade in the mid 90s the guy he got it from took the overdrive trans out and installed a regular 3 speed. My grandfather rarely drove it and said the transmission was bad and about to come apart. And it’s been off the road since 05 so extremely low miles accumulated since this trans has been put in. what’s the best way to verify it’s got the right parts. I believe it’s a 7006-1a trans.
Main shaft tight. Input shaft tight front to back with a tad play up and down if moved at the clutch end
7006-1a sounds like the main case part number. It would be the same on a 3 speed or a 3speed OD, I wonder if he simply modified the original OD tranny using standard 3 speed parts? Other then the tail shaft and tail housing they are the same.
Assuming the low/reverse slider is all the way forward, it sure looks close to the idler. Does the idler have a shoulder on one side?
It does have one on one side and the shoulder is facing the rear of the case. However the beveled edge of the gear is facing forward…
I may have missed it but did it make the noise with the side cover off? Are the thrust washers the same thickness on both sides of the idler gear? The counter shaft 1st speed gear and the reverse idler are pretty beat up but that is kind of normal on a old non-synchronized gear set or it could be an indication the 1st/reverse slider gear grove is worn or there is play in the fork/side cover pieces allowing the slider to bounce off the speed gears. Is the shift shaft that comes through the side cover tight to piece the fork goes into?(I can't remember if those are pined, machined or welded)
With the side cover off and all gears in neutral, no noise present. However once you spin it enough the 1/r gear would work it’s way into the idler and make the noise. There are actually no shims on the idler gear. The shift shaft and detent are welded and some very sturdy
Can you post a picture of the main shaft in the area the 1/Rev slider gear resides? Something has to be moving/worn causing too much play that allows the gears to touch when they should be held firm in the neutral position.
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