Technical 8BA what are these things?!!!

So I bought an 8BA and the engine is stuck it will not come free so I pulled 1 head to take a look and got distracted by these things ….looks like ring inserts around the top of each cylinder. If this is normal please forgive me but this is the first flat head ive every disassembled …what are they?

 

Was it sleeved? Can't quite tell from the pics.

 

That looks like a sleeve to me. someone has been in there before. Is the deck raised under the intake. That would make it 39 41 that came with factory sleeves. someone may have converted to an 8BA distributor at one point. Sorry on closer look that is an 8BA because of the lack of bellhousing. It's been sleeved in the past.

 

It's really hard to tell what you're talking about. Perhaps you're wondering about the very different surface finish on the bore, starting about 3/8" below the deck surface? If so, that's the wear from the rings below, and the crud that collects in the bore, at the top.

The strange rings on the deck surface, just out side the bore, might be the imprints left from the head gasket "fire ring", or it might be the top of a sleeve, as suggested. there might also be a substantial chamfer at the top of the bore, which aids in getting the rings to go into place as the piston is installed.

If you get things cleaned up, and get some closer pictures, with some circles or arrows overlaid pointing at what you're asking about, maybe we can get a better answer?

 

Sleeves. Like this one (zoom in on #4)

You can see the difference between 3&4
Mike

 

I don’t see any sleeves,,,looks like a ridge at the top of the cylinder,,,normal wear pattern .
Tommy

 

It doesn't look too rusty, should be able to get er loose

 

Could be sleeved or normal wear or could be where someone did a rim job. Vacuum the junk out of the cylinders and dump some oil or something down the cylinders and let it sit for a day or so then try to free it.

 

Not sure what your looking at, just looks like dirt and shadows to me.

get it cleaned up .

 

I don't think he's looking in the bores. Rather the ring around the bores on the deck. Looks like the top edge of a sleeve. Just scrape the gasket and you will know. Sometimes the edge of the deck gets a little crumbly from the boring and pushing-in of the sleeve. It's like a cast knife edge, bits break off. This ends up looking like a chamfer-ish ring around the od of the sleeve. If you decked it enough to get rid of the shadow, you would open up a can of worms. Doesn't hurt much, as long as it all seals up. It is hard to see. I really noticed mine when I started scraping the gasket off. If you are still worried about them when you are assembling, you could smear a little lick-dob on them, under the gasket. Mike

 

That engine is not stuck and has been moved. Take the other head off, remove the oil pan and front cover and timing chain. Clean the dirt out of the cylinders and pour some Marvel Mystery Oil mixed with acetone in them and let it sit. Maybe a day or a week just do not rush it. Let it soak and daily try to turn it over with the flywheel forwards and back until it frees up. It will just take your time.

 

If you look at the first picture, all 4 cylinders have been sleeved.

 

My eyes aren't good enough to see the sleeves. It just looks like marks from the fire rings in the head gasket.

 

The dark annular ridge is carbon buildup. It will occur in the bore between the top of the uppermost ring and the top of the bore. There should be a matching soot buildup in the combustion chamber area on the head. Usually happens with worn rings and/or an overly rich fuel/air mix. You can use acetone and a rag to remove it to confirm. A soft scraper like a penny edge will work wonders to chip it away without scratching the bore surface.

 

warhorseracing is on to something....

Flatheads do not have a timing chain, they are direct "geared". Meaning, they have a large cam gear and a smaller crank gear. This is how the valves are timed rather than a chain, common on OHV engines.

Flatheads are prone to "lock-up" in the valve train. Of course they can also lock up in the cylinder bore. They could be "stuck" a little at both places.

To free this engine...

You need to remove the intake so you have access to the lifter valley. Make sure it's clean in there. Get a squirt can of oil and a non marring tool, a very light non marring hammer, a block of wood....a hardwood dowel ect ect ect....

Clean...wipe out....tap the valves....tap the lifters...tap the piston tops.....

You are not trying to drive railroad spikes!!! just lightly tap!!!! You are just trying to loosen. Striking the valve tops hard can ruin the valves. Tap tap tap tap....on the valves and lifters if you can get to them....tap tap tap tap and the Piston tops....Go back and fourth sis to side. After a tapping session try to turn the crank....back and fourth...back and fourth...Going back and fourth, eventually you can go all the way around. Be patient.

No luck after a good while "several days".....

Pull the timing cover. Remove the timing cam gear. This way the crank is separate from the valve train. Now you are just working against the bore, rather than the valves and the bore.....

Those cylinder tops look like normal wear....You'll find out more once it's all cleaned up...

 

F1 you just took it to the next step. If the crank and pistons and crank turn then the problem is in the valve train and easier to get things moving once you start to dis-assemble them. I know looking back I said chain but when you take it apart you will see the direct gears. Getting the main rotating assembly to turn eliminates it and then you can turn to the valves, cam, and lifters. I had one so bad stuck that I ended up cutting the pistons out after carefully examining the block and found no cracks. After I got the bottom end out I started on the valves. Had to cut pry and eventually got it apart without damaging anything. Magnafluxed the block and found one small crack of no significant harm. The block was salvageable with a .020 overbore but went .03 due to the less expensive pistons. Lesson here is patience and go slow. Take your time and you may have a gem.

 

I had a 289 that was locked up in the Cylinders, Tight!!

I finally got it go around once and it locked up again! It was stuck rings. The rings had fused to the pistons. In the ring grooves was that chalky white aluminum oxide. The rings and pistons had become one...Thing is, only one, possibly two were locked that way. It was enough.

A big help....Loosening the rod and main caps.
It does not seem like it would help but it sure did. Loosening the rods and mains allowed a little extra movement so I could turn it much much easier. With the crank turning I could remove each rod and piston.

In short, it may turn or turn easier if you loosen the rods and mains...

 

Could be sleeved or factory sleeves or a bad relief

 

If you’re talking about the black ring in the cylinders thats where the top rig stops . Shinny spot is where it rides and seals from the combustion, the black ring .