Hi guys, I'm beginning to amass a bunch of parts for a build. I don't know the world of the Ford flathead very well so I'm hoping those more knowledgeable can assist. So far I know 2 things. I want to run a flathead. I want to use a Borg Warner T85 with overdrive. I have one in my '49 Chevy pickup and it's awesome. I realize that a more modern 5 speed might be easier, but the BW has the old school vibe I'm going for. In searching for parts, I've noticed that there are 2 versions of this tranny. One style appears to have a bellhousing adapter cast right into it. There's a huge flat plate that would bolt to the engine. The other version doesn't have the plate and looks like a "normal" tranny that uses 4 bolts to attach to a conventional bellhousing. Now, which tranny version bolts to which generation of flathead? I'm thinking of going with an 8BA if that matters. Can either tranny bolt to that engine, or does the tranny with the large mounting plate only mount to earlier flatheads? Can the later more conventional style tranny be fit to the earlier flathead? Thanks in advance for any insight..
An 8ba doesn't have the partial bell housing cast with the block like a 59 series. If you use an 8ba block you can use a cast iron 1/2 bell housing from a truck or a stamped steel bell housing from a Merc. This will allow you to use a '39 top loader trans. If you want to use an O/D trans with the 1/2 bell housing you'll need an O/D trans from a Merc that had the partial bell housing built into the trans case. Or you can use a full bell housing from a car that will allow you to use the later "more conventional" O/D trans. If you use a 59 series flathead you'll need the Merc trans that will bolt to the partial bell housing cast into the 59 block. A hogs head from a truck trans could be adapted to allow you to use the later more conventional O/D trans on a 59 series. To me a 8ba is the better choice but others will have different opinions.
Perfect reply, thanks!! One more question.. Do the later trannies that were bolted to say, a Y-block, have the same 4 bolt pattern as the the flathead? I found an OD T85 that was in a '57 truck...will it bolt to the 8BA bellhousing?
They did have the o/d trans in '51-'53 Fords so you can find them that are for 8BA blocks. If you want to run a later trans (with an 8BA) you need a '52-'53 Mercury bellhousing if you want a clutch arm or a '51 Mercury bell if you want the clutch shaft. All 3 of those years are a cast iron bellhousing that has the later Ford trans bolt pattern. I'm going to run a 8BA to a Ford 3.03 (top loader 3spd early to late 60's). You'll need the starter plate from the Merc also.
This isn't as simple as I had initially thought.. That red transmission that you posted above with the integral mounting plate... Will that somehow bolt to an 8BA? EDIT: I think I just answered my own question. That red tranny will bolt up to an 8BA if I use the truck bellhousing...the one that looks like just a big ring... Correct?
If I understand your post you believe the transmission with the integral bell housing as shown below is a T-85. That transmission was used in Mercury’s from ‘49 - early ‘51 and while I do not know what designation that trans had I do know it is not a T-85 and the OD it uses is the lighter duty R10. Ford and Merc R10 OD transmissions used a side cover that was rectangular. This next picture shows how the side cover has a curved bottom on the T-85 three speed that was introduced in 1957. The T-85 used the stronger R11 OD, only the electrical components will interchange with the R10. That last picture shows the later transmission case introduced in the mid(?) 1960’s, the flathead bell housing used the smaller bolt pattern.
With the 8 BA style engine you could go either way. Use the bellhousing from truck or Merc and use the big bell 49 -Early 51 overdrive trans or use the stamped steel Ford bellhousing and use the 49 to early 60's 4 bolt Ford OD trans. Those are the simple ways except for finding a decent transmission. Truck Bellhousing. Stamped steel 8 BA bellhousing if this works.
Ok, got it now. Thanks for getting me straightened out. I have a line on the Merc version (the red one above) which I think will actually work just fine for what I'm doing. The R10 doesn't bother me since it would be going behind a mildly built flathead in a really light car. The Merc tranny is more period correct too...
I spent about three hours the other night and there seems to be no adapters available to bolt the later Ford (post mid 60's) to a flathead. None that I could find for an early flathead nor any for the 8BA. I'm thinking guys used to redrill the small pattern bellhousings to bolt the later trans to them in the late 60's. The plan then was to put a 4 speed out of a Mustang or Big Ford in a 56/57 Ford.
Is the 4 spd the same pattern as the 3 spd, I’ll double check this weekend but I think the ‘51 to ‘53 Mercury bell will work.
Keep in mind what clutch diameter you want to use . The Merc bellhousing ring is stamped steel and only allows a 10" clutch. The truck bellhousing is cast and will allow you to use an 11" clutch which it was designed for or the smaller 10" clutch.
ford trans had the same bolt pattern from '49-'64. i believe the t-85 was a more heavy-duty trans and came with the r-11 overdrive. used on 390s. some don't like the non-synchro first gear.
As Dan C said the "early" 4 bolt passenger car bolt pattern ran from 49 to 64. The late pattern ran from 65 on. I had a buddy who put a 390 crate motor (first crate motor I ever saw) and new over the counter Ford 4 speed in his 57 Ford 2 door post. I wasn't involved in the swap as he did it at his dad's gas station and I only stopped by a couple of times but he gave me daily updates at the auto mechanics trade school we went to. The other one who was also a classmate put a 4 speed behind the 352 in his 56 For two door wagon. His best bud who goes by Headers/Hedders ? (sp?) on here Towed him home more than a few times when he had three speeds in the car and hauled him to the local wrecking yard that always had a 3 speed saved back for him. I've got a broken 4 speed in the shed but don't know if it is early or late. It came with a bunch of stuff in a trade, got stuck in the shed and forgotten.
Just make sure that if you get a bell housing that you get the matching "starter plate". The different bell housings all use their own starter plate, and the starter plates are actually harder to find than the bell housings. (People saved the bell housings, but for some reason, tossed the starter plates.) I have a bunch of solitary bell housings and am always on the lookout for matching starter plates.
I do remember something about a dual bolt pattern on some of the 3.03's. Mine is from an FE as they're stronger and I found it first for a good price . I have to do more research since I'm not a big Ford guy past the 50's.
@Southtowns27 I believe the Lincolns from ‘49/‘50 used the T-85/R11 trans with the “large flat plate” case, looks like the Merc unit pictured but is the desirable heavier duty unit. I MIGHT be mistaken about that, but I think what I said is correct. So, if you were told the original unit you spoke of in your first post was a T-85, you may want to double check before you dismiss it. As stated in a prior post, the quick ‘tell’ is the side cover with the bottom side curved. Ray
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