Hot Rods The Belly Button Bucket Build Thread

The intake turned out nice! If that engine runs half as good as it looks...

 

I love that white motor. Glad this thing is still making progress.

 

Playing catch up a little bit here but dang does that look good! The stude valve covers is a genius move.

ive got the same race fan as blue one and while louder that some other fans I’ve run it absolutely keeps my 46 ice cold

 

Well today was monumental. My brother and my parents were over and we got this thing lit off! I had a heck of a time finding radiator hoses and there’s a few small items to address, but the chassis is 97% done, and the engine fired up on the first revolution. Temp never got over 160*-180* (two different gauges, one liquid filled in intake, one vintage Greenline in the head). So the fan worked great! I’ll post some more updates later hopefully. Thanks to all for contributing and following along!


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First drive's coming soon!

 

Sounds really good!

 

A milestone for sure.
Congrats.

 

Revs really quick

 

Thanks guys. Our timing light was acting up and it was getting late so we just set it by ear. Hopefully in the next couple days we can get it dialed in a bit more.


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HOT DIGGIDY DAMN! This is very exciting, I can't wait to see you on the road in this car!

 

That should be a blast, and that smile says it all Tim!
Your diligence has paid off.....may want to put an egg under the foot feed for the test drive.

 

Well, we got it dialed in a bit more. I started by plugging vacuum advance and zip tied the centrifugal advance so the springs wouldn’t fling out the weights. I also wired up a tach to compare with the timing light (has a tach built in). Basically all these tasks did was prove the timing light is acting up and not to be trusted.

While I had it apart, I pulled the carb off to see how far the throttle plates were open. As suspected, the first transfer slot (hole) was exposed. I had the curb idle screw turned all the way in, as well as the mixture screws all the way in trying to balance it out. Basically we were running on the transition circuit. I wanted to drill the throttle plates to get some more air in there but wasn’t sure where to start. So I called (don’t remember name, but totally legit dude that knows his stuff) at hotrodcarbs.com as I had bought a lot of stuff from him back when I built the carbs and he seemed pretty helpful. He laughed and suggested I start with 3/32” and go from there, drilling the holes near the center of the throttle plates, on the idle mixture side of the throttle shaft. That seems to have helped, but I think it needs more. I’ll check how far it’s open tomorrow, but we were finally able to get some action out of the mixture screws and on the air fuel meter. The tach likes to just bounce at idle, no matter where it idles at. But it smooths out instantly with throttle. Best I can figure, it’s idling at about 900rpm in the video.

Since the fancy timing light wasn’t working, my dad dragged out his 1970s Sears one. The only problem with that is I just have a balancer mark and a “V” groove on the timing cover. I tried to source a timing tape locally before dark without luck.... So I did some arc length calculations and marked out some masking tape. After adjusting it a bit, with the vacuum advance plugged, it’s got 12* initial and 32* total, all in by 3,000. Might come in sooner, but I was watching the tach and Dad was watching the timing light haha. Plugging in the vacuum advance seems to take it from 12* initial to 16* at idle, so I think this is a good starting point as far as ignition goes. Anyway, I’ll do some more tinkering tomorrow.


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REAL SMOOTH bet you could do the old "balance a quarter on the intake trick" on it.

 

Front and rear carbs blocked off? Are they open but not connected by linkage?
With a big cam and 4 bbl, you can open up the secondaries a bit for more air and to get the primaries closed enough to work properly. This can be done with your front and rear, but they must be open equally.
I'd say that the 12 initial and 32 total timing is in the ballpark. Are you connecting the advance to manifold vacuum or ported vacuum? At idle, ported should be zero. 4 degrees of vacuum advance is either very low (manifold) or the primaries are still open too much and ported is pulling some advance. Tune everything without vacuum advance, then add it. It should be 8-12 degrees total. Experiment with setting initial at 0 and running manifold vacuum (12 vacuum) VS initial at 12 and ported vacuum (0 at idle). See which makes it happier with a big cam and light weight.
I'd guess that you will be getting about 10-14 inches manifold vacuum at idle from the sound of it. Make sure the power circuit in the carbs are set up for this, since normal stock engines pull around 18 inches at idle and having a low vacuum at idle due to a big cam will cause the power circuit to start to open, causing a rich condition and mess up adjustments. It's a balancing act, trying to get it smooth without bogs and proper mixture, but with the way the build has gone, I expect you to have it purring and roaring shortly. It's already pretty close.
A vacuum gauge will be helpful for tuning. A timing light tells you a number, but driving and listening to the motor and tuning for best running (idle, cruise, rolling into the throttle and full throttle) is what will get it right.

 

Front and rear carbs are blocked with steel plates under the baseplates for now. Center carb only. All tuning was done with a vacuum gauge, with vacuum advance plugged, then when finished plugged into manifold vacuum. The vacuum advance canister is adjustable with a set screw that I haven’t touched yet. I want to get the carb idling on the idle circuit first, and idling well, before I try anything else. Like you said, it’s pretty close now, but it could be better. I will dig up my notes to reference what I did to these carburetors once things are running decent then document here.


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Since it's close with the end carbs blocked off, you might want to go ahead and skip refining it further without the end carbs supplying a bit more air and fuel at idle, allowing the center carb to close a bit and be more responsive to tuning.
Initial timing should allow smoothest idle while not running too rich and start nicely without kicking back on the starter when hot. This is where engines with more compression and carbs often prefer manifold vacuum over ported vacuum advance. The lower initial timing (before vacuum advance pulls in more) allows easier starting while still providing decent idle timing. When the throttle is opened, vacuum and timing drop to prevent spark knock under load. Stock engines often prefer ported vacuum so initial mechanical timing is adequate, and additional advance is provided as cruise (light load) is requested for optimum MPG. Adjusting vacuum advance depends on which vacuum you end up with, but as mentioned 10-15 degrees is common (not 4). Starting, smooth responsive transitions, power and knock are your guides. What is current idle vacuum?
Are the end carb idle circuits working and adjustable? Synchronize them to lowest idle without throttle blades sticking, adjust them for mixture then set final idle and mix using center carb. Mixture adjustment is best done with a vacuum gauge and tach. Adjust for best numbers, although slightly lean will result in a slight drop in both (.5-1.5" and ~ 50 RPM) while improving starting, MPG and avoiding plug fouling. Lean =shake, rich = roll.

 

Well, the video from the other day showed it idling at stoichiometric ratio, but still on the transition circuit (see photos above). I spent time with family yesterday, but I had a little time today to tinker. I went from 3/32” to 7/64”. The idle got a lot crispier, but I had to once again crank on the curb idle screw quite a bit. I’ll have a look tomorrow to see where it’s at, but I suspect it will need more drilling. Making progress though! Check out the video!




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Just about there! I stepped up to 1/8”, then 9/64”, and arrived at the picture above. Idle mixture screws were about 1-1.25 turns out. Then I thought I would take a cool video of walking up, starting it, letting it idle, maybe do a rev, then shut it down.... well I walk up, turn on ignition, go to engage the starter and kill the ignition switch lol. Fail. Gonna pick up a new switch on my way home from work tomorrow and give it another try. I already drilled to 5/32”, so it is all ready to go.


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Hello people of the internet. I have been taking advantage of our nice weather in the PNW and finishing up some long-term yard projects, so not much to report on the bucket. BUT... I did a little more carb troubleshooting and tinkering, but it still needs more work to cure an off-idle rich condition. Once I figure that out, I will address some chassis items that need fixed, brace the body, get a windshield and some wiring done, and go for some test runs! I believe that will happen this summer, although as usual, my house is taking priority for now...

I have a question for the local HAMBers: do any of you have a good pair of 1940 Ford 16x4 steel wheels you would sell or trade? Or a pair of not-a-small-fortune 16x3.5"? Two of my wire wheels are bent, and I am leaning towards steelies. I have like 6 wheels that are 16x4.5", but I would like to find some narrow ones for the front. I have some other options as well, but this seems to be the easiest and would look the best for the cost involved. Let me know who's holding!

 

You are looking for car’s that came with V8-60 in them. They had the narrower wheels and that’s why they are hard to find’

 

I’m running 16x4.5” wheels on the front of my RPU with 5.00x16 tires
They work well.
I’m running 16x6” on the rear with 7.00x16 tires

 

Do these carbs have idle air bleeds that also feed the transfer ports?
These are used to 1. keep the idle and transfer circuits from siphoning and 2. lean out the mix on both circuits.
If they are present, you can try to open them up slightly to get the mixture right for the transfer, then open the idle mixture screws to get idle mix right.
I don't like to drill out carbs if I can avoid it, but this may fix your issue.

 

They do. I drilled and tapped the air bleeds to accept Holley screw in air bleeds, so I can change them on the fly. In this situation, changing the air bleeds had no measurable effect on the off-idle rich condition. The only change I was able to make was by swapping base-plates to one that had smaller diameter transfer ports. I then tried to fill and re-drill my base-plate to match these smaller transfer ports, with partial success. When I have more time to post and elaborate, and ideally after I have completely resolved the issue, I'll share what I did. But for now, I need someone who's holding a pair of 16x3.5" or 16x4" early Ford steelies to give up the goods!!!

 

Well I haven’t updated this in far too long. I ended up getting the overly rich off-idle condition sorted out by simply swapping baseplates to one that had smaller transition ports, then drilling the idle mixture port to match the baseplate I had on the car for startup. Now it’s very crispy and stays at stoichiometric ratio up to about 1800rpm, and that makes me really happy. I can tune the rest of the kinks when it’s on the road. Here is how it sounds now (video is old, I just didn’t wanna keep spamming you all a few months back).



I also ordered new wheels and tires. When I first started this build, I thought the wire wheels and whitewalls would be cool, but I think the car has more of a mid 60s vibe, so I finally convinced myself to pull the trigger. I’m still waiting on front tires I ordered back in April…. Hopefully they will show up soon lol. I have a couple brackets to make/rework, and hopefully I can get going on some body bracing/wiring soon. I’m desperately trying to finish my yard work so I can spend the fall and winter on hot rods. Anyway, that’s where I’m at on this thing.









Also, I know a couple comments were made on the 32 Vicky roadster project - well, the neighbor down the street approached me about buying his fiberglass roadster body. I’ve known about it for a few years now, and I have been working on him. It needs some love, but it’s pretty cool as is. Now I need to sell the other body and misc parts so I have room, but I feel very fortunate these things are happening! Good things are coming!

 

Awesome!

 

Hey Tim
That's what a garage should look like.....two glass cars going at once!
By the way, put some steel structure in the inner side cowl and a dash brace that ties into cowl bracing as roadster are known to have considerable cowl shake.

 

You got that right, Doug! When I step out into that garage, I think, "I have arrived." But when I look at the rest of my house and all the projects going on, I come back to planet earth. It's a good motivation booster though. The 32 body already has a steel structure bonded to the body, as well as a dash brace following the curve of the lower dash panel. There's a handful of paint chips, scratches, etc.... but I'm thinking on that project I can kinda just blend the various parts to that level of finish and not "over-do" everything. Theoretically that will be easier than what I did on the T. I guess we'll find out haha.

 

Sounds/looks good. That speedometer looks familiar!

 

Okay so any updates on the projects? We're hanging in here with baited breath...

 

Hopefully soon! I’d like to be at a certain point before I post pictures, and I have been waiting for parts!!! Thanks for checking in!