I have two questions when I see these old systems like this or Scott or Meteor. How is the atomization at 7 PSI vs. 150 and how does it regulate flow without a return line?
The SES was developed on racing snowmobile and other small engines, marketed as a performance carb for import cars around the mid '70s(?). Not sure about technical details or how efficient it was.
I don't know about this particular one , but Scott used centrifugal pumps that not only eliminated teh need for a return line (fuel recirculated inside the pump) but it also allowed for an instant head of pressure. Scott also injectecd the fuel above the throttle plate where the air was more chaotic - his theory was that there the fuel would be better atomized. Sounds like an ideal setup for a street driven "old school" mechanical injection to me....I AM gonna do some experimentation with this theory - I have been rounding up some scott pumps and some other junk over the last couple of years - maybe this summer I'll get around to it.
I have been looking for a Scott Super Slot for years (well, one tht I can afford). A lot of his stuff was rudimentary in the actual injection method and was ment to be run on a blower for the fuel to mixed into a homogenius mixture. All his tech work was in the actual pumps which are pretty advanced, especially for the early 60's.
I LOVE cool, old flathead & old speed stuff as muc has the next guy, but....... How is this cat still in business? I understand that some of his stuff is rare &, as stated, restored, but the prices listed seem pretty high even for Hershey standards. Check out murocequipment.com---------
RacerRick, In case you didn't know - they are repoping the SuperSlot (thanks to the Mad Max crowd) and they are quite faithful tothe origionals. The harder to find part is the pump - no repops as far as I know. The pumps are really SIMPLE - way simpler than the P.D. (positive displacement) of the time. Scott pumps were run at crank speed - this was needed due to the lack of low speed effieiency of a centrifugal pump. As for the injectors being rudimentary - I suppose they ALL were then - but ole Mel sly like a fox - his choice of "point of injection" was no accident - one Super sharp dude for sure. I've got a super slot (that I paid DEARLY for )- I can't wait to tinker with it.
Forgive the bump of a dead thread. The original post shows an SES injector made by a couple of guys who were brothers in Minnesota. As stated above, that injector was initially made for snowmobile racers. Later they sold it as a economy/performance enhancement for small displacement cars. There was a pretty in-depth article in Car Craft(???) way back when although I cannot find month/year for the actual issue. The copy of the article I have is in Petersens 'Basic Engine Hot Rodding Vol 2' (1975) pages 128 and 129. ISBN 0-8227-0097-2 / Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 75-181330. I am a simplicty addict and have been working on simplified mechanical fuel injection stuff for a long time. I had memorized this article when I first got the magazine in question. I was doing patent searches and found a patent application for what turned out to be this fuel system. I searched and found phone numbers for the names on the patent application and eventually got into touch with one of the original makers of this system. I bought a box of inventory from him. Enough stuff to put together one system, plus some spares and samples and whatnot. I spoke with him several times at length regarding the system confirming what I had deciphered from the patent application and just studying the basics of the system. This system is supposed to work sort-of like the low-pressure injection systems that are sometimes used on aircraft. Or like the pressure chamber of a pressure-carb. Basically a pressure carb, or a low-pressure injection system uses a 'balancing regulator' to regulate fuel flow at a very low pressure, and the rest is pretty simple. The idea with the SES system is that you have a simple version of a barrel valve hooked to the butterfly, and engine speed/load are corrected for by having the regulator at a very low pressure. (light load/low speed = airflow is not putting any 'pull' on the nozzle, high speed/heavy load = venturi effect is 'pulling' from the nozzle faster). The fellow I spoke with said that they used 4 of these units on their shop truck (350 chevy) back then, and it worked just like they were supposed to. (take that for what it is worth - it's entirely anecdotal) I did use the one that I own in a single arrangement on one of my beater wagoneers (360 V8). In that application the unit is so small that I believe there is no way to make it work as the builders intended. The fuel pressure needs to be so high that there is no compensation for load or speed. It was possible to drive the unit, and achieve decent power with a fairly clean idle, you just had to use the throttle progressively (there was no way to set it up to where you could just 'mash on it' from an idle and actually have it work). I believe that an engine driven pump, or an airflow corrected regulator (like Bosch CIS systems) are the only way to make a system really work. My interest in simplified mechanical fuel injection is in off-roading. I need fuel systems that are hammer-simple, will idle clean all day, and will run on their side. Full-throttle is important, but getting every last nuance and wringing every last pony out of an engine is not where I'm at - so 'lesser' systems like the originally posted one make good sense for me. If I find no other thread that fits better, I will add here about the Scott TBI system I have. It's a Scott main body, that bolts to a holley 4-barrel baseplate. It uses the pumping section of a holley blue pump, but replaces the electric motor with a drive spindle. I ordered a couple XL series belts from MSC yesterday. I intend to be driving that Scott setup within weeks.
I bought 3 of those SES’s new in 1977. $100 each. They were for VW’s and others did not have a nozzle but a bar with holes. Needed regulators as I remember and a good pump
I tried one on my VEGA 4 banger as it was a simple bolt on. I bought it used and had no paperwork. Really could not get it to work as within a few minutes if would backfire out the pipe. Much later in life I had more understanding of the system and other systems, and finally realized that by still running the smog crap, that the gas tank was not vented except thru the charcoal canister that needed a vacuum source to operate and vent the fuel tank. which I had plugged off since there was no spot for it on the SES unit. Without a vent the gas would just surge and at some point stop flowing and the system just lean out. later, one guy in our car club got it to work, but on a club outing was always pulling over and adjusting it for altitude changes. the higher we climbed the less air and would run fat and then lean as we came down the mountain
No. I sold the last one a few years ago still in the box. The other 2 went to aVW guy who added a nozzle an used the barrel valve making them like a Hilborn.
Reminds me of the locally made Howarth injection. Low pressure (3.5psi from the standard fuel pump), and used a hollow throttle spindle to squirt fuel out the downstream side of the throttle plate. I reverse engineered a set a while back, then had fun running on an engine cradle (... and setting the driveway on fire ). More info here: http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21645 Cheers, Harv
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