Technical Would this be accepted on a traditional Hot Rod?

Already being done by Nates Hot Rod Garage. Quite expensive at $5500
There was a full feature in Issue 46 Rodding USA( a great magazine)
http://www.nateshotrodgarage.com/shop/product/independent-suspension-package/

 

For some suspension ideas check out issues of Honk magazine. I think it was the July 1953 issue that showed how to build a torsion bar suspension using custom made bars and model A shock arms. It was used with straight axles. They also had a series of articles on building a swing axle rear from Ford parts. I always thought with a bit more work you could add a second outer u-joint and build a fully independent rear or a DeDion type setup.

 

That's the one. Built in 1935, some pretty advanced engineering. Front end concept is quite a bit different than what is being discussed here but at least it proves some cars were being built with experimental suspension setups.

 

Yes, way ahead of it's time...and it truly was a far more complex and innovative time than we could imagine...some of it did certainly influence Hotrod without question...one just has to be careful how its presented...

 

There will always be room for an Allard here. Bob

 

All of the examples posted except the ford twin I beam have the same problem. The axles are too short. They need to extend to the opposite frame rail. The point where they crossover would be the roll center. Without the crossover point the front roll center may or may not end up somewhere between the axle pivot point and the load center of the spring. Couple that with a roll center too low on the rear and poor anti squat and you will end up with a car that packs the front wheels in corners.

It's geometry folks.

 

Heck yea.
Doesn’t have to be cookie cutter to be trad.
There is nothing more traditional than incorrect geometry.
Plenty of examples of guys trying and experimenting.
heck, Ive read stuff about split bones being bad.
Seen plenty of incorrect math turn laps around tracks.

 

...a period suspension shared...



...Nates seemingly inspired modern offering shared by @hudson48...

I have looked at vintage patents and many of them were beyond ingenious and went on in whatever fame they garnered...Many times those in the know can in fact recreate past Excellence and offer it up again with successes not realized back in the day...

There are also other suspensions depicted here and this one by Nate's may have evolved in inspiration from several directions but it certainly is much more plausibly Hamb friendly noteably lacking that non accepted here billet look...

I reference the Blair Roadster as it truly is a period Hotrod and it always disturbs me to see genius tossed out in the trash so to speak...AND it actually looks pretty sharp...I wonder how it performed...

Anyone know?​

 

Anthony I don't like to debate Traditional but I know a Bonified Vintage Hotrod worthy of Hamb presence when I see it...Again I like the Kooky face on Blairs Roadster because his genius certainly inspired the evolution...

Hokey Ass is My playground because I enjoy the BIG Picture...

 

actually, because of the very long moment of the axle, very little change in camber occurs. But the guy doing the alignment has to know just how to bend them. The real problem with the twin I beam is shocks. The axle is so long and heavy, it over works the shocks and you see it in cupping and weird wear patterns. Properly aligned and good shocks matched to the vehicle weight and they are very easy on tires. The real problem was a mechanic that was in a hurry or didn't understand the geometry of the system and doing no favor to the owner. I did hundreds or even more of them and took the extra time to ensure everything was correct. Plus, I made sure that the vehicle was loaded to what it normally carried. Guys would bring in a 1 ton truck empty and you would inspect the bed or platform and could tell it was usually heavily loaded. Those trucks and vans need to be aligned basedon the weight they normally have loaded on them. If not there will be problems.

 

I'll say this...
A lot of those designs remind me of the M151 Mutt Jeep. The M151 is why the government suspended surplus Jeep sales and started cutting them in two. The 151 had independent front and rear suspension.
From what I understand it was OK off road. On pavement it was deadly especially for those used to how the old straight axle jeeps drove. It was unpredictable and prone to the axles rolling under it laterally causing it to flip.

^^^This image here is what reminded me of the Mutt.
There may be a pretty good reason these designs are...uncommon. When it comes to designing front suspensions....You better have your A game.

Kaiser/AMC had their A game when they designed the Mutt and...

 

The cornerstone of Ralph Nader's famous destruction of a car.

 

Just because it's not traditional doesn't mean it is not period correct.

Duffy Livingstone's Eliminator had a 4 link in 50's

 

Jimmy Frankland had a four bar on his Stagger Valve Fronty Sprint Car in the late 1930's.

Didn't the LOTUS 11 use a split English Ford I beam along the same lines as the Allard?

 

...@GraeffSS thanks for bringing this alternative to the revered more commonly used front suspensions...I don't believe Blairs Suspension effort was a Hack job by any means...he utilized a similar duty/weighted front suspension out of a period vehicle available at that time and mounted it much like any of the numerous swaps to modify Hotrods at the time were performed...Remember not ALL were Hacks...

He was known to be a modifier that wasn't brand conscious so to speak and he went on to become quite a successful Racer, Hotrodder and Businessman...

I have witnessed and shared this Dry Lakes Roadster many times in the Homogenized Thread trying to Correctly Identify what he actually used...I can't remember off hand if we did have a match to date...

Sorry long winded but again I don't believe hack was in Blairs repertoire...I'm making an assumption here but I defend his innovation...
​

 

This what you speak of is kind of a case of if they knew then what we know now but it certainly doesn't mean it shouldn't be reproduced or experimented with in a period way to improve shortcomings...

Secondly under most normal driving conditions it may have performed well and in many cases better than the more typical applications of the time...

 

@Stogy i agree completely! Sometimes old ideas revisited can become brilliant new ones!

 

Leslie M. Ballamy started splitting axles and selling kits in 1933. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Ballamy. This car shows a swing axle. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the steering linkage. What goes on in the middle there?

Mike

 

So did the Kookie T, I just realized recently.

 

Dominator Street Rods offered a "Twin Tube" front axle design for early Fords (the hot rodder's version of the Ford truck Twin I-beam design) for some time, but I couldn't find it listed on their site. I visited their shop a few years ago and saw their front frame sample, it was fantastic. Engineering wise, those guys know how to do stuff right. Perhaps they still make them?
http://dominatorstreetrods.com/chassis-suspension

 

From almost 70 years ago...

Photo is from 1953, AC as in AC Cobra fame.