Oem seatbelts in a hotrod?

In Canada like the USA each Province lije each US state sets the rules.
My truck is totally exempt in Manitoba, I cannot attest for say Ontario or BC.
Yes those are nice belts.

Yes of course a lot of engineering and testing for our modern vehicles.
My OT vehicle is a HEMI Ram 4x4. I felt super safe in it until 1 winter night., while driving home on a 2 lane highway I see a car coming across on a gravel road travelling wicked fast. I slow right down he drives right across highway and into ditch.
He woulda T boned me at prolly 70 mph.

 

early s-10 belts work well , I have used aftermarket 3 point non retractable belts that looked cool but I hated. Look at wrecks of 50's cars and you would not want to put anyone you love in them over 30mph.

 

No you wouldnt wanna see those wrecks.
Especially in the 50s and 60s nobody wore seat belts.
Before the mid 80s they werent law here.
I never wore seat belts, had a few crashes but all lower speed fender benders. Never injured in any.
Had a low speed head on again no injury whatsoever, because of really slow impact and wearing seatbelts by this time.
I hit a deer while going about 55 mph, dented rear box of 94 Ranger never felt it but deer sure did..

 

I don't currently have belts, but have been thinking lately I maybe want to install some lap belts at least. Is there any thread on here on how to go about it the right way? I've seen a Pic on here of a guy just drilling through the floor and putting some eye bolts and connecting to those. Or should I pull the interior out and weld some support in or what? Pics of your guys' installs would be helpful to myself and others who read this and want to install belts. Thanks fellas, good thread. Keep safe out there.

 

I added 3 point belts a couple of years ago. I used an aftermarket kit.


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Looks great, but shouldn't that 3rd point be behind your seat?
Or is the pic deceiving my tired eyes....lol
Should still hold back your upper torso better than lap belts..

 

It’s behind the seat. I can get a better picture later.
I think you are seeing the rear seat.


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I put 3 point retractables in my sedan. Used non-retractable for the back 3 and center front.

I got the green webbing to match my interior. Since they didnt supply the webbing (I mailed it to them) they could not DOT certify them. That didnt matter to me, and isnt a law in my state. I just wanted good belts that looked like they belonged.

I got mine made at SeatbeltPlanet, they are veteran owned and made here in the USA. I got the modern retractors which wont lock up when you put the belt on. They are angle mount specific, just tell them how you want to mount them. This is a simple vertical bolt in.

I think I have less than $350 total investment for 6 belts and the grade 8 hardware.

I was most concerned that the steering wheel and steering column are almost designed to shish kabob you in any type of collision. One end of the steering shaft is bolted to the frame, the other is a nice fine spoke steering wheel made to collapse and poke you in the chest.

 

OK, my story.
The 50 Dodge pickup that I had when I joined the HAMB was mounted on a modern chassis. Because it was on a modern chassis, it did have a collapsible steering column. The truck sat up high, and the 2 piece windshield was huge. I did install a pair of lap belts. When I first started driving it, I wore the lap belt every time, but then one day I was sitting in the cab and looking at the windshield. I came to the conclusion that if I was in a crash, that lap belt would fold me right over the steering wheel and put the top of my head right in the center of the glass. I didn't wear the belt much after that.
One day (Oct 2011) I was driving through town at 30 mph, and some lady turned left right in front of me. I never had a chance to touched the brakes, we hit head on. The impact stopped the 4850lbs truck dead in its place, and pushed her car back 20'. I was not wearing the seat belt. My butt left the seat, my hands pulled the steering column and wheel with me. The windshield header above the windshield stopped my forward movement when my head hit it.
I got a totaled truck, 11 stitches on my forehead right at (what was then) the hair line, and a sprained thumb on my right hand (that was hooked on the steering wheel). I still occasionally get a stiff neck that was a result of the crash. The lady the turned in front of me had an airbag equipped car, and those air bags saved her life. I believe I was the lucky one in that crash.

Everything I've built since then has had a 3 point belt system, and I use it every time I get in the vehicles. Most of those belts came out of cars from a junk yard, but I get belts from fairly new vehicles, and I usually use the seats from the same vehicle. I pick nice belts and seats. I like the buckets from the 2nd row of mini vans, most of those have the belts attached to the seats, including the shoulder belt. Newer convertibles also have an integrated belt system, as do several import cars.
Another thing I do is remove any non-collapsible column and replace it with one that does. Even cutting the hard column and adding a steering u-joint between the shafts adds a measure of safety, in that the column can bend as everything moves in a crash, rather that coming straight back at you.

I did a lot of hobby stock dirt track racing back in the day. As a result of that, I tore a lot of cars apart and was able to see how the factories added support for things like shoulder belt mounts. Nearly all the modern belts only have a reinforced box with a captured nut welded to a post, or window support panels. The intention of that reinforced box to to pull as much of the side of the car as it can, if it moves. A grade 8 bolt, nut, and about 8" long piece of 3/16" thick 1" wide steel tucked behind an enclosed box will pull a lot of metal before it fails, and that pull is not in shear, its at about 90 degrees from the bolt head. That box is usually only used as a place to hold a bracket that allows the belt to change directions. The retractable part of the belt is anchored to or near the floor with one or more reinforced nut plate(s). The belt runs up along the pillar or door post to the little piece that it slides through. That slide through piece is bolted to the reinforced shoulder box. The belt then passes through a second slip through piece that is part of the seat belt latch. After that piece, the belt travels to the base of the seat where it is anchored to either the seat, the seat bracket, or another reinforced floor nut plate. The other end of the seat belt has the latch assembly, a short belt with a bracket with a 5/8" hole (all the seat belt bolts I've seen are 5/8" or the metric equivalent) that either bolts to the base of the seat, the seat bracket, or a reinforced nut plate in the floor or trans tunnel.
As a side note, if your using an OEM retractable seat belt, the retract mechanism needs to be installed level to function properly. Someplace on the housing, there is a level line imprinted on the housing. Inside the mechanism there is a hanging pendulum, that is what allows the belt to move freely until it gets out of level and locks the belt in place. The design is to allow the belt to move so you can move in the seat, but on impact, the pendulum swings towards the direction of impact and locks the belt in place. If you have one of those retractable seat belts that wants to hold you tight every time you move, the odds are, its not level in the car. When you are incorporating a belt system from a different car, its important to notice how the retract mechanism is mounted in the car your removing the retract from, it needs to be mounted the same way in your ride, sometimes what one would think is level may not be the way the retract was designed to be mounted. I pulled a really nice set of belts from a rear seat in a modern car. That rear seat belt retract was designed to be mounted at about a 45 degree angle on two different directions. Holding it in what I though should have been level lock it up tight, flip it to the goofy angle, and it worked perfectly. It originally mounted off the rear wheel well!.
Anyway, I hope this gives some people some incite about seat belt mounting, but its not intended to be mounting instructions, your car, use your discretion. No liability accepted.

 

I used to Take oem belts out of donors and put them in my rods and still have the set in it that my students put in my 48 the day after my wife fell out of it in 1978.
After getting rear ended by a garbage truck and then shoved into a Johnson barrier in my daily driver Prizm Gsi a few years ago and then having the state patrolman that my seat belt retractor had jammed in the impact I don't don't plan to use belts out of a donor rig that I don't know the history of again. He said in an impact like that it was pretty common for it to jamb up. Getting hit in the rear broke the seat back and hitting the barrier launched me forward against the shoulder harness. Outside of a hell of a bruise from the shoulder harness I walked away without a scratch.
New top quality seat belts are a bit spendy but so be it.

 

My youngest son was killed when he was T boned by a semi truck. He was in a Nissan pickup and had his belt on. He pulled out in front of the truck, so it was his fault. Seatbelts don't always save you. Don't be fooled into thinking they will. That being said, I always wear mine and have for years. I don't have any in the Lincoln yet, but it will be getting a set of lap belts in the future when it goes back on the road. They are not required for it, but want to set the good example for the Grandson. He's good about putting his on now, want to keep him that way.

 

Very tragic Sir, you are correct some collisions are fatal no matter what safety equipment is involved.
My sincerest sympathy to you and yours having lost your Son this way...

 

Yes, that's terrible, my sincerest condolences. I've lost a few buddies to wrecks, never a close family member. I'm sure we've all got some sort of history of loss when it comes to the automobile, and yet still all would agree a belt is better than no belt. As much as I would like belts, there's no 3pt installs I've seen that wouldn't be an issue with cutting and welding where it will be seen, need repaint, etc. Not that I won't do it, but if I can do it easier I'd prefer to.

Is there any bench seats that have the belts attached to the seat itself? Maybe beef up the seat install and keep the actual car unaltered where you can see? I know my ot dd pickup has 3pt's right in the seat itself. If there's a bench seat like that, it'd sure make things easier.

 

Bench seats have pretty much disappeared ages ago so ones with belts attached never came on board. There are those truck ones but they have that huge box in the middle but they look like truck seats anyhow. If you want something that looks decent, fabrication will be needed.

 

Hello,

As teenagers, we all saw those driver’s ed. movies about scaring the daylights out of us. The steering column coming back like a spear in a head on crash, a tree limb through the front windshield, even flying bodies outside of a car in any accident, these were the staples of the scare tactics. We were aware of the dangers in driving, but for some reason, it must have sunk in for our class.

There were no big time accidents and deaths from those driving in our teenage years. Small fender benders, a parking lot pole or two, a bent bumper and a side panel dented when sliding around in snow, etc. were the actual accidents we experienced. But, we were bombarded with so much safety stuff that older adults and teachers could throw our way.

When seat belts came out in new cars, we had been driving around beltless facing a solid shiny steel, dash board, a non collapsible steering column and brakes that did have a hard time stopping those heavy cars from high speeds. The handling and braking in our cars was not a cause for us as we did not know any better. Plus, the 50s-60s cars were certainly more advanced than the earlier hot rods or family sedans. So, that was our driving scene in the 50s-60s time period.

But, as seat belts came into the factory cars, it was something that was rejected at first. But eventually , smarter heads prevailed and it became standard equipment on all cars, foreign and domestic.

Jnaki

When we bought our 2nd 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery, it was 10 years later from high school and seat belts were the standard in all cars by this time. So, the sedan delivery had all of the power goodies installed, but we had to spend countless hours fixing what did not make the car run well on our coastal cruises. We spent months getting everything drivable, brakes, alignment, balancing, shaving new tires, and it was finally a road worthy hot rod for the both of us.

But, as much time spent in this version of the sedan delivery, we did not have seat belts and somehow felt a little naked. So, my wife decided that we needed to put some in place. We searched high and low for some that would match our tan surface material for the bucket seats. I wanted a 5 point shoulder harness like the drag racers used. My wife nixed that idea as it would ruin her daily clothing and would be a hassle to just get in or out of that harness.

We found a set of tan seatbelts and rollers at a Chevy dealer. It came with the standard huge metal washers for a safe installation. My neighbor suggested that we put in heavier duty wider plates with the factory washers to give the floor board better distribution of force if needed in an emergency. The rollers were the small ones that came attached to the belts and sat on the bucket seats. There were no support column, retractable rolling mechanisms built for any cars at the time. You work with what is available and make it better to fit your needs.

When we finished the installation, it worked perfectly and now, my wife felt secure when driving with her friends or sister. Yes, she did drive the 40 Sedan Delivery by herself as it rode like a new car, had the power to get out of any situation and had the all important, A/C.

Our second 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery was similar in outward looks to my first hot rod back when I was a teenager. Only, it was a bright Red/Orange paint and not a off color Salmon Pink as the teenage sedan delivery had.

 

I bought the '50 panel truck I have now and it just happened to already have these seats with the belts built-in.
Cosmetically, they look alright, don't look out of place to me, retract and don't bag when at rest, and are easy to reach.
Somebody told me that mine are from an early 70s Chevy truck but I haven't researched it. I believe some high-end luxo-boats may be other possible donors.
Butted together they can squeeze into a 47" space. The belt anchors bolt to the beefy seat tracks, so the seats are complete 'units' that bolt down where you want to position them. However, the seat 'tracks' may have a slightly oversize footprint so that may be an issue for some floor situations. But in my truck with its flat floor, it's a no brainer.

 

I used my wife's 2005 T-Bird for location of the three
point seat belts installed in my '57 Bird. The system
I used included belt retractors. I purchased my belts
from Ssnake-Oyl Products in Tyler, Texas. I am not
advertising for this company, but simply stating their
system worked for me.
Ernie

 

@tbirddragracer awesome name for a company "Ssnake-Oyl Products" really???

Just wanted to put it out there for some of you scavenging belts from more modern cars, there are parts in the latch on some that are set to burst into a locked position once wrecked. That is why firemen cut the seatbelts when then get to the scene.

Another thing to consider is the bench or seat you have with your car if you are running your old seat, it need to fully lock into the driving position.

We usually just run lap belts. I would like to get the 3 point into the Caddy but it bit harder to do properly on a convertible.

 

I have a similar set of seats that came from an ‘01 Yukon that will go in my ‘57 Chevy PU, I can’t use, nor want to use, the console thing ( be to wide then) and even though I didn’t want buckets, it’s really my only alternative to be safe. As I kid I had eye-bolted lap belts with a 6x6 plate under the floor to spread the load in case of an impact.
I always thought I was safe, until years later when reading something about why 3 point belts became mandatory.
Anyways, I think your seats are more modern than the ‘70s.
I’ve an ‘82 Chevy PU with a bench seat and the shoulder belts loops through at the top of the cab. I think they started putting them through the seat once the extended cabs came out and the seats could no longer be released to fold over.
I was told that newer model smaller pickups had bench seats with 3 point belts, but I never came across one in my trips to pick and pulls.

 

I have experience both personal and professional with death and destruction concerning automobiles. I have just about seen it all. I'll spare you all the horrendous stories, because I got them...nobody wants to hear it....

No belts.
Not good in most crashes for "most" vehicles. Although there are cases where occupants have been thrown clear. That's a rarity. The only time no belts may be consideration is a very light roadster or open car.

Rule oh thumb....A vehicle you get "on" you may be better off with no belts.
Tractor...
Model T/Model A Roadster...
MB/GPW/CJ Willys Jeeps with no roll bars...
Being strapped to vehicles like this can be more dangerous than no belts at all.
Consider these "4 wheel motorcycles".
Like a motorcycle, a helmet is a great thing to have in such a vehicle.

Rule of thumb...A vehicle you get "in" most of the time you are better off with some type of restraint.
All closed cars...
Most convertibles from the mid 30s up...

The Lap Belt...
A+++
Lap belts by far are the best bang for the buck and the best thing you can do make your vintage ride more survivable. Notice I did not say safe. The term "safe car" is a work of fiction. It's fantasy. I don't care what it is, there is no such thing as a safe car. There never will be. Some way, some how, there will always be a chink in the armor, always....
The lap belt is simple. It's easy to figure out how to mount. It's easy to reinforce the mounting points. It by far than the any other system provides the best protection vs no protection.
Rules (for most cars)...
Never mount lap belts to just the seat!!!
Never mount lap belts to the frame!!!
Reinforce the floor mounting with at least a large heavy washer or a reinforcing plate.
My personal suggestions...
Used the widest, thickest belt you can find.
I strongly suggest a helmet worn with the lap belt. It's just a good option to have. If the traffic gets hairy or you get the "vibe"...pull over and slip that helmet on.
Simple, simple simple!

A lap belt keeps you in the car. Even if the doors open(the reason for the Nader Pin). Laps belts keep you in the car.
Most fatalities I have seen involved ejection or worse partial ejection. The lap belts keeps you in the car during a rollver. The worst case is to be half ejected out a window or door in a rolling over car.
Lap belts keep "most of you" and most of your weight from going into the dash or into the steering wheel. You could still make contact in a survivable crash but it will not be full contact! ^^^see helmet recommendation!!
By far the greatest cause of death is head injury. Again lap belts help greatly as the they reduce the full force. Again^^^^some type of helmet in conjunction with a lap belt...
It's simple and effective....

3 points, 4points, systems from other vehicles, up to full roll cages...

A+++ to F---

The more complicated you go, the more you get into the restraint system itself being a danger rather than an attribute.

Think about that.

 

Thank you Sir, by far the best post I've ever come across on this topic.
I have also thought about a helmet, especially in those scenarios you mentioned.
Thanx again

 

Don't leave home without seat belts or this guy,meek at least if your going to a junkyard ya need the impact