Technical "Upgrading" for saftey vs. being period correct, why not both?

I am a stickler for being period correct, so things like modern alternators, dual master cylinder, etc... are not my cup of tea.

I have never understood why when both of these items were available in the H.A.M.B. era why people don't use the period correct parts?

Mopar introduced alternators in 1960 and Nash introduced dual master cylinders in 1962.

I know these parts are not 100% correct for a 40s-50s style build but it would look like something might have updated in the early 1960s

 

I'm with you. I want some of the more modern upgrades but I want the period correct look.
The upgrades I have made to my ride(XR-700 ign/water-meth injection/fuel pump) have been installed in a way to hide them at first glance. I also installed an alt in place of the gen.
I want the look of the period with the reliability and safety of a more modern ride.

 

It is part of the challenge. How to cheat the 1965 cutoff and get away with it; our version of Smokey Yunick.

 

As much as I'm all for keeping things period perfect when it comes to safety issues I tend to upgrade. All you have to do is be behind the wheel when you have a single master cylinder fail once in your lifetime to realise how important it is. When I look at old hot rod magazines I tend to see guys putting all the upgrades available to them at the time of their builds. Be it the fifties ,sixties or seventies. I still remember seeing upgrades in the seventies such as rack and pinion, Mustang front cradles, Covair cradles, Jag and Corvette rear ends.

 

While I appreciate a build that’s 100% period correct, I also see it as overkill.
Much like those who must have original equipment on an original factory built car. Obsessive compulsion.
Just rattling the cage for fun.

 

If a Rod is built to enjoy a drive,
you have your answer.
(And after standing on it, I'd rather be able to stop)

 

It all involves trade-offs, and those will vary for each owner. Where/how you drive your car, what year/style of the car, costs, practicality, and yes, safety.

If you're a hard-core traditionalist, that means you're accepting all the limitations those early parts have. The days of going to the local boneyard and picking up a replacement 'vintage' generator, trans, and rear axle are long gone. How many flatheads have been fitted with T5 or other modern trans? Even guys like Tardel are doing that, recognizing that the 'practical' choices have narrowed drastically. The days of adapting later V8s to OEM drivetrain are gone, many are just too fragile to be driven as they were 'back in the day'. I knew a guy in the late '60s who loved to build 'sleepers'. He'd find a disreputable-looking ('patina' in modern speak) car and swap a bigger motor in. He ran a '48 Ford sedan for a while, put various early Olds, Buick, and Hemi V8s into it and terrorized the musclecars. But he broke those Ford 3-speed transmissions on a almost weekly basis. Not a big deal... for him. Because he had a old pickup truck box behind his shop full to the top with them, he'd just pull another one out of the pile and put it in. He had another pile of banjo axles for the same reason. Who knows how many he reduced to scrap metal, they were just old car parts in those days. I recall going for a ride in about '64 with one of my cousins in his early Olds powered A coupe with a Zephyr-geared Ford toploader and seeing the shift lever exit through the cloth top insert on the first-to-second shift. He didn't have too much trouble finding another trans, that won't be true today....

Me, I'm definitely a alternator/modern trans/disc brake guy. I still have a heavy right foot and while I don't beat my cars with the same abandon I used to, when I do I don't want any breakage. I lost count of how many generators I exploded, killed my fair share of trans and rear axles, and want good enough brakes so I at least have a shot of missing the morons driving their ABS-equipped shitboxes.

Don't get me wrong; I admire the guys that painstakingly build 'period correct' cars. Tracking down usable and/or now-rare parts, rebuilding them back into shape for use, etc, is not a task for the faint of heart or shallow of wallet. But unfortunately, IMO they're no longer hot rods, they're museum pieces and must be treated as such to preserve them.

And I do draw a line; I definitely go for 'traditionally styled', no EFI, billet crap, big-cap distributors, colored plug wires, air bag suspension, tilt columns, electric fans, or interiors that look like they were lifted intact out of a late Caddy. But I also want self-canceling turn signals, electric wipers, seat belts, and something more than a AM radio. No AC for me, but I understand that some folks live where it's pretty much a necessity.

 

There are "Period Correct Show-Cars" and then there are cars meant to be driven.
Seat Belts, dual master cylinders, Disc brakes, radial tires, Safety wheels, overdrive transmissions, and alternators all make the drivers more reliable, safer and enjoyable. Keep the hood shut (on the HAMB) and don't draw attention to it. Same as we ignore Chevy 350s, Big Block Chevys, LA series Chryslers...
Think like Sgt. Schultz.

 

I'll make sure not to tell my truck you said that...

the only modern part is a 68 mustang dual circuit master cylinder. Everything else on it is period correct. It sits outside year round. Usually daily driven. I hauled a stump grinder in it last week and it went to the dump the week before that. And I used it to pull a BB I have this weekend moving it around the yard.

It's just an old truck. Also known as the gas powered dumpster and it is used as such.

 

Drum brakes, generators, single master cylinders, points, etc all still work today, just as well as they did back when they were the only game in town. I guess a lot of folks just seem to lose sight of that fact.

Of the three old hot rod type vehicles I have, one has a dual point, one has a mag, one has an HEI (which I just haven't got around to replacing yet). Two have 60s alternators with mechanical voltage regulators, one has a 3 wire 10Si. One has drum brakes, the two fast ones have discs, all on single pot master cylinders. The racing ones have harness, cages, etc so they can do their thing. The other has lap belts.

As for why we don't see more of the old stuff in use, good question. Maybe because it's inconvenient, and all it gets you is the admiration of guys who are too dumb to change with the times.

 

Anyone can have the most period correct ride. Be the best defensive drive to your capabilities.
It doesn’t matter.

Today antilock brakes, etc, give drivers a sense of security. The car damn near avoids an accident as the driver is watching a movie while driving. Cars that manual/automatically turn the steering so you don’t go over the line on the road, etc.
Upgrades for YOUR benefit....do it, still won’t make a 50+ year old automobile safe in an accident as a effing Prius.
I know this thread wasn’t about safety, but I never had a single pot MC fail, always spotted leaky stuff doing oil changes and lubes, fixed as needed


Nothing wrong with upgrades, but no matter what you do to upgrade a vehicle that is 50 plus years old, it won’t be a modern vehicle


Okay, gotta go to work

 

Great stuff I always like to hear want people are thinking and why they do what they do.

 

I'm sure part of it is where you live. Around here, if something lays on/near the ground too long it returns to the earth. I've seen transmission cases with rust holes in them...

 

It is the same here plus we have to deal with NYC water supply regulations. All of NYC's drinking water comes from revivors here in Upstate NY about three hours north of the city.

We have very tight regulations on run off. There are very few junkyards, parts cars etc..., but for me hunting down parts is as much fun as building, or driving a car.

I find walking around a Junkyard Zen like.

 

For all intents and purposes, junk yards no longer exist! That said, growing up in the fifties in SoCal, our main purpose in our car builds was to get the latest and greatest parts (that we could afford) and make them fit! I still subscribe to that theory and like Watson and Barris, I’ve taken a couple of cars right from the dealership into the shop and done some mild custom touches. While these cars are certainly not “traditional”, in my mind the process is.

 

Yep, the yards that had vintage stuff are all pretty much gone unless you want to travel cross or out of state. Some odds and ends show up on CL once in a while, but it seems the sellers all think they have gold. State laws that required the yards to clean up was one culprit, land use was another as the property got worth too much.

 

There is no such thing up here as a junkyard with anything older then a 90’s appliance
You might find a couple junkets from the 70’s or 80’s MAYBE !!!!!

so finding traditional parts or hot rod parts your searching kijiji Facebook marketplace etc for deals and parts.
If your patient the deals are out there.

Even going to your local parts house and finding anything older then early 2000 whatever in stock can be a challenge.

so I think a lot of trade off are due to parts availablity and cost.
I like guess I’m more of a “ traditionally inspired hot rod “ kind of guy.

I know a few guys that not only search out the traditional speed and custom parts, but also period correct nuts , bolts, hose clamps even wheel weights !!!
I think these cars are fabulous in execution, but I simply don’t have the patience for that.
Love the people that do and can tho

 

I was going to get upset about this. I just can't

 

On my recent purchase (65 Montclair) I am going to keep the drum brakes and single master cylinder for as long as I can along with the points,I made sure the parking brake works in case there is a issue.

 

there are plenty of old parts around....we have the internets now.....

I can buy 1960s replacement brake and electrical parts at the local auto parts store, it's not like people don't use the parts because they don't exist any more. It must be something else.

But folks sure are good at coming up with excuses

 

I tend to upgrade on items that I considered insufficient back when I had my first few cars. So I have disc front brakes on everything I put together along with the 2 system master cylinder. I like an alternator over a generator, I think it just works better. And I feel like I am driving naked if I don't have a seat belt on. Electric wipers over vacuum. Turn signals. Other than that, my stuff is pretty much period correct except for the cheap Chinese parts they sell for my replacements....

 

I tried to ask in a way to get people thoughts, and not come off as an A-Hole or start an argument, and maybe talk someone into building a "modern safety" period correct car.

I changed the title as well.

 

I do have one that I have been thinking about going from a alternator back to a generator if I can find a hight amp generator from a big car,a alternator does not look right on a 235.

 

There are levels to it, I guess. I "upgraded" my brakes from adjusters to self-energizing in both my front and rear brakes.

 

Period correct is what period you happen to be living in...

 

Your very correct time n your statement , but I think it also depends on the car.
The 261 in my 50 Chevy along with anything I needed for the car was easy to find nappa for anything engine related was usually a few hours or next day.
Antique Chevrolet was literally around the corner from the Mazda dealer I worked at , at that time.

my 53 Chrysler engine wise parts where easy, trans was another story.

my 55 Buick was a pain in the ass for anything if I wanted it quick and local

my 69 Lincoln other then engine and drive line, anything else was a 12456788990087 dollars !!

all my ot early vw stuff was always easy and cheap to source, haven’t built one in years so that may have changed.

I’ve owned other cars with varying degrees of ease or difficulty in sourcing parts. I’ll be honest , I’m lazy and would rather be fixing it and driving then having to source the part then save money to buy the part.
I love old cars and most of them I love the ease of fixing them. Some..... not so much.

 

There is still a dividing line between "HAMB" friendly year wise and "period correct" year wise.
Period correct to me means that you set an absolute cut off date for any visible piece on the car and it had to be readily available prior to that cut off date. If you are building a custom that is set in 1954 custom car wise you can't run 59 Caddy bullets or 57 Caddy hubcaps no matter how much you love one or the other. Same with a firewall mounted tandem master cylinder on any pre 1967 based build. Under the floor where no one that isn't laying on their back snooping I don't see the issue unless you are shooting for the "absolutely period correct" award at some event where they really nitpick the whole car.

It is no doubt wise to run a tandem master cylinder but running a correct for the time frame single piston cylinder on a brake system that is all in top shape isn't a crime against humanity by any means. Brake hydraulic failures no matter what they are on normally fall under the category of lack of maintenance and inspection on neglected parts that failed or piss poor workmanship and design integrity by someone who didn't see the whole picture when they installed the system. Sometimes the failure isn't the fault of the guy who installed the brakes but the guy who did other work on the car. Back years ago I worked on a car that had the rear brake hose burned by the exhaust pipe and failed. Fresh build on an OT rig. They did a great job of installing the brakes but when they took it to the muffler shop to have the exhaust installed the guy who installed the pipes didn't check where the hose was going to bend to when the weight was back on the wheels. It looked great with the axle hanging down and held up by the shocks but when you put weight on it the hose curve out right against the pipe. That wouldn't have happened if the exhaust guy had done the work on a 4 post lift rather than the two post lift he used.

When you think on it a bit about 80% of the broke down on the road threads on here start because somewhere along the line someone didn't do proper maintenance on a vehicle or the now owner didn't go over everything close enough to make sure it was all in top shape.

 

My OT Austin Mini (67 thru 74 bitsa car) has as good if not better parts availability than some of the newer cars I've owned, and the "Whatever" project has stuff ranging from new to really old. When its done it will look like some era early 60s or older, but the stuff that's new, well I'll keep it hidden...

 

I feel like the original question posed by Robert was more like if your going to run an alternator on your hamb era vehicle, why would one opt to run a modern one wire GM versus a period correct unit? Why not run a part that gives the desired more modern features and still is an old car part that fits the aesthetic of an old car?

The answer is some guys dont care about those details. Thats it. That's all. For some of us the details are everything. I don't want to hide modern parts. I dont want them on my car.