Technical Oily slick in water/coolant 454

I could use some help. I recently purchased a 1953 3600 shortened and widened to sit on a 64 truck frame. Mark IV 454/350. Long story short I had The Fever, didn't do my due diligence when purchasing, and got burned. Instead of going over it and inspecting I listened to it run and purchased with my emotions instead of my head. I'm aware of my mistakes.The problem I need help with is that in doing all the maintenance I found the coolant to be just friggin slap full of rust, neon orange. Did a reverse water hose flush until it ran clear, but I noticed that the mess I flushed out had a oil slick on top. Not an extreme amount, but it looked like liquid rainbow. Got some prestone flush, filled with tap, did some spirited driving around the neighborhood. No overheating, no white smoke, no performance issues. Get it back home, do another flush, still see that slick. Its not enough to bead up, its just a rainbow on top of wherever the water puddles. The radiator is an aluminum replacement. At this point I check oil and it looks OK to me. It may have just the lightest discoloration, but is not milky, or milkshake-like, I see no separation, just due for a change. Next step I pull off the valve covers, and both are coated underneath with white/grey slick. I note that the PCV system is complete crap, with the passenger side just having the hose end loosely stuck into the valve cover with no PCV valve. So I write that off as the possible cause of that. Next I check the transmission dipstick, looks great, smells fine, ruby red and clear. (thought maybe it could be the trans cooler in the radiator). After scratching my head for a couple of days I decided to flush it again with the hose and I captured some run off in mason jars directly from the upper hose. I let it settle and sure enough, oil slick on top. Not enough to bead, just a rainbow (thought maybe I was seeing oil in the run off as it was introduced from the frame or front of block, not the case).

This all leads me to where I need help. What would be the next course of action to take? Should I do a compression check? Could the rusted cooling system contribute to a head gasket failure that only allows oil into coolant? Considering that there is no pressurized oil in the heads Im guessing thats unlikely but Im a novice. If this truck sat for a period of time in the pacific NW, and it was filled with water instead of a 50/50, could this be a cracked head issue? Or a cracked block? If it were one of those issues, wouldn't I see a lot of water in the oil as well? Seems like if a cooling or oil channel cracked the likely situation would be water in the oil not reversed. I am trying to get advice to direct my next move. I do not want to unnecessarily pull the heads, find the gaskets in good shape, and not know what to do next. I feel like there is a correct way to get the most info on the problem, and if I go into it blindly I will screw up.

Thanks for your time.
Blue

 

does it lose coolant when you drive? Does the radiator get bubbles when you let it idle, with the cap off? If so, it might have a leaking head gasket, and the oil slick is from the exhaust in the cooling system.

Orange coolant might be a modern type of antifreeze, rust is usually brown. But we can't see what it looked like, so hard to say.

 

I didn't notice any bubbling while idling, and I didnt see that it had used in while driving around. I did pay attention to the exhaust and didnt notice any smoke or steam. What I initially flushed out was definitely rust water. The inside of the upper hose is stained rust orange as well. I dont think it had a drop of antifreeze in it honestly. My feelings are that the PO bought this truck and parked it and its been sitting for some time with straight water in it.

 

Yeah, that's rusty!

If it were mine, I'd probably keep flushing till it's as clean as it will get, and put some miles on it, and see how it does. If it drives ok, and doesn't lose coolant, then it'll probably last long enough to save up some pennies for a new motor.

 

Well, under normal circumstances I would do just that, but given that I just paid a decent amount for this truck I was hoping to pinpoint the issue. In other words, if the block or head was cracked, my plan was to reach out to the seller and see if he'd consider a split the cost of a replacement block or heads with me. I'm probably SOL on that, but I figured its worth a shot. Hes local, a nice guy, and I think he was just clueless to automotive basics as opposed to someone trying to pull something over on a fella.

 

If you are thinking about talking to the previous owner about any warranty, I would first explain to him what you found. Then ask him if he's ok with a 3rd party reputable mechanic to take it to and get his opinion and go from there.

 

If there is a trans cooler in the rad I would eliminate that first.
If it is oil I doubt its a cracked head there are no pressure passages in a Chevy head.
As for a head gasket you can get a combustion leak detector kit pretty cheap or if you are in a area that does tail pipe smog tests the wand will detect C/O in the radiator pretty easily.

 

I think you can "rent" the test kit from OReillys.

 

The Prestone flush is basically soap. To really remove the rust, try a radiator flush that has oxalic acid. Probably called a severe flush or similar. Just look at the ingredients.
It doesn't take much oil to make the rainbow slick on top of the water. I wouldn't condemn the engine yet.
Try the acid flush, it will also help remove rust and scale inside the engine. So it will come out rust colored.
Good suggestion to get the test kit that checks for exhaust combustion products in the coolant.

Sent from dumb operator on a smart phone

 

Where does the hose go that was laying in the valve cover? The white/gray in the cover sounds like water might be getting in the oil especially if both covers were coated.

 

It was running to one of the large vac ports on the Edelbrock QJet. And yeah, both valve covers were thoroughly coated. The valves and heads in general looked clean, but the covers themselves were coated in grey mayonaise.

 

Good tips guys, I picked up a compression checker today and almost grabbed the combustion tester which was right next to it. I believe it was $30. Ill grab it tomorrow and see what I can find out.

Did some Mortec-ing and found out its an 86 truck engine, suffix ALB with 045 heads. I want to drop the pan and see whats going on in there but the new carb hasnt come in yet. The suspension is currently aired out and it has an accessory driven compressor.

 

Does it run well ?

If it is mechanically sound ,,,I don’t see where you can go back to the seller .
I mean,,,,look at it ?
It’s obviously a R R ,,,,,,what do you expect ?

And rusty water doesn’t make it unserviceable .
I agree that it probably wasn’t cared for like it should have been,,,,but a lot of people don’t use antifreeze .
Don’t ask me why,,,,I don’t understand it,,,,,,,I use antifreeze religiously,,,just because of the anti rust factor,,,,as well as freezing.
And a sheen doesn’t seem like oil to me,,,,,,even some cleaners leave a oily sheen on water .

The milky valve covers could be condensation from not driving much and the bad pcv deal .

The rusty water does look awful,,,,and it should be flushed .
Then add antifreeze back to the system,,,,,,,and drive it .

It looks like you live in a beautiful neighborhood,,,,and have a nice home in the background.
I hope the thing works out for you .

But ,,,,to be honest,,,,when you see anything built like this,,,,,does it surprise you that it might be cobbled together,,,or that it wasn’t maintained well ?
Caveat emptor doesn’t really apply here,,,you could easily see the condition before the purchase .

Tommy

 

I don’t think you have a transmission cooler leaking into the radiator. Transmission pressure is higher than cooling system pressure and I believe you would have a lot more oil in the radiator. Find a local Cummins engine dealer and buy a gallon of Fleetgard Restore. There are two different types and you want the type for cleaning oil from cooling systems. It is what we use when a Diesel engine oil cooler develops an internal leak and fills the cooling system full of engine oil. Temporary remove your thermostat and make sure all of the anti freeze is out of the system. Restore is to be used with straight water. Read the jug, I use an entire gallon, but the systems I deal with hold 7-12 gallons of coolant, I bet you only need 1/2 gallon. Add your Restore, top up with water and drive your truck for 90 minutes. Not just let it idle, drive it. You want RPM up to ensure a good cleaning. Then drain everything out and flush with water until clean, this might take an hour to get all of the Restore/water out. Now refill with coolant or even water and reevaluate your oil in coolant situation. I’m betting you are dealing with past residual oil of some type. If Restore won’t clean it out, nothing will, this shit is potent. After all this, if you still have the oil, you have a crack somewhere.


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What do you expect to see? I would not expect to see anything that would help you diagnose the cause of the symptoms you're seeing.

 

In the nicest way possible I think you are overthinking this. Just flush it out a few more times, fill it with the coolant of your choice and drive it. Check it a few hundred miles down the road and reflush it if it makes you feel any better. If its not overheating and seems to run fine then what symptom are you diagnosing? Why would you do a compression check? If you did in fact have a tiny headgasket leak a compression check would tell you basically nothing. Also your initial description of the coolant immediately made me think it was filled with GM Dexcool, that stuff is like neon orange.... not necessarily rust water but maybe it was dexcool or very old watery/rusty dexcool.

 

Truckdoctor Andy has some good advice. I've always used Cascade dishwasher detergent to wash one out, same principal as what he is telling you. Caterpillar always put a box in with a new oil cooler kit for their engines, so if it was good enough for them, it was good enough for me. The Fleetguard product may be different, maybe stronger or something, point is, either will do a good job washing the rust and scale out so you can get a baseline on how much oil might be seeping in.

 

I’m thinking the advice of flush it some more and drive it is your best bet. I’ve never had any white build up in the valve covers but if your not seeing it on the dip stick it may be just from sitting. Fix the PCV, use a baffle. The hose is a vacuum leak and is probably sucking up a bunch of oil into the carb.

 

What part of the country are you in? MK IV? Holy butt munch, the best engine ever, period! Condensation in the valve covers is normal in a high humidity environment ESPECIALLY with shit PCV management (lack of). If the engine gets real good and warm it eventually evaporates and is usually a moot point. Scary at 1st? Sure, but since it's not in the crankcase (milky oil) it's hot oily air on the bottom of cold valve covers. How many times did you start it up for friends and family but didn't let it run for 5-10 min to reach full warm up? That just adds to that engine's quirk of doing that. I'm sorta with the majority here, clean it up and run it. Compression test is a quicky but I'd do a leak down if I wanted a deeper look at things. I'd also do a cooling system pressure test. Pump it up, go grab a coffee, come back and see if it dropped. A couple pounds drop is nothing, but if you pump it up to 18-20 and it drops to 10 then start looking, if it drops to like 16-17 powder it's ass and tag the cooling system as good. The leak down test will bubble the coolant if it's a head gasket or a cracked head in some cases. Leak down symptoms are listed all over the world wide web, worth a little search. On either test, comp or leak, 10% difference is normal, less difference is obviously better. I'm with squirrel, dropping the pan is a messy job that won't tell you much. Finally, as hack as this sounds, if you do discover a really minor leak use this stuff and follow the directions to the letter:


Grumpy Jenkins put stop leak in all of his engines as a matter of course to promote gasket seal. I used this on a couple vintage engines that are still good today, and watched it stop the leak on one of em. Better than all the good ol types like Silver Seal and Barsleaks, and closer to racer type ceramic seal products. Double your money back if it doesn't work. But assuming you have no issues, fix the PCV, do your final flush, change the oil, then go burn some rubber. But most important, let us know what you found out.

 

I used a block saver additive on an OT foreign car with a bad head gasket and even my mechanic was impressed that it worked.

At the worst I'd be tempted to change the head gaskets, but see if it holds pressure first. Take pains to get as much crud out of the block and radiator as possible. Add a pint of MMO to the oil, drive it around town a few days, change the oil and filter. For antifreeze I like regular Prestone green, or the parts store brand is ok.

 

Fun read.

 

I have not read where anyone suggested draining the oil. Do that before you drop the pan. Change the filter also. Vehicles that sit or get run infrequently build up condensation easily and it takes some miles to get it out of there. Oil sheen in the coolant would not be my first reason to drop the pan. Flush it, put antifreeze in it , do the combustion gas in the radiator test and see what happens. Oh and I'm sure you did but clean the milkshake looking stuff out of the valve covers and install a new PVC
For what it's worth I change oil and filter on every used car I buy unless I say it being changed when I bought it.

Pat

 

I would flush the cooling system as best as possible, put a 195 degree thermostat in it change the oil fix the pcv system and drive it . Does it even have a thermostat in it ? riding around at what temp ? you have to get the oil hot enough to keep the condensation out of the motor.

 

I forgot about Cascade. Years ago before Restore, we used Cascade as well. Thanks for the reminder.


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Ive used good old vinegar to clean out rusty blocks,works well. You need to let it sit for a few days,then drain and flush. You can also pressure test the cooling system to see if it holds .

 

Ton of replies to go through here. Appreciate everyone's input. My goal is to evaluate this block and see if its worn slap out or if its a semi-solid foundation to do a quick and dirty build up on. My hopes are that the block is fine so I can yank the 045's and select some new heads and a cam. Im just trying to make sure I dont pull a bonehead move and bolt a bunch of nice shiny parts onto a block thats already doomed. I spoke with the previous owner and gave him a run down of everything Ive been dealing with and he actually refunded a decent amount. If it turns out I have a cracked block Ill be pulling the trigger on a short block, possibly from ATK.

I did a compression check today. I know its not going to answer my immediate questions but the info is great to have. Looks ok to me. Hope its the head or a head gasket.

1. 131
2. 130
3. 128
4. 128
5. 127
6. 126
7. 126
8. 130

Next I plan to put eveything back together, run some cascade through it, flush repeatedly, possibly do a citric acid treatment and see if the oil returns. I want to drop the oil pan just to see how nasty it is honestly. I know its a dirty job but Id like to see if there is any grey scum in there as well, along with seeing if this is a 2 or 4 bolt main.

 

I thought you guys might get a kick out of this too. Aside from my "crack issues" Ive been simultaneously dealing with keeping the truck running, sputtering, etc.

Long story short, I found water in the carb (Edelbrock qjet 1906) which I cleaned best I could. Put it back on, ran great and strong for a 10 minute drive around the block, then stranded me a few streets away. Check carb, more water. Tow it home, start pulling up the wood bed to get at the fuel cell. Apparently the seals were bad in the filled lid and rain has been pouring into the cell for who knows how long. I pumped out what I could, cleaned out the cell and blew out the lines. Rather than rebuilding the Qjet Im shelving it and have ordered a Quick Fuel Slayer 750.

Its a pain, but Im having a ball. I needed something to dive into honestly.

 

Good your figuring it out/getting results, but Damn!^ that's a mess......... Keep going. I'm sure it will be fine.

 

I checked and it does not have a thermostat. At this point Im not surprised haha

 

compression readings are kind of normal for an old truck engine.

If you're gonna spend bucks on some heads, then it probably would be a good idea to go over the rest of the engine, when that time comes. Until then, driving it will probably tell you more about it than taking things apart.