Technical Question. Filled roof . What would it take to go back to a roof insert.

Hi everyone. I hate to keep bombarding you all with questions about my inadequacies, but this one sorta has me thinking. My 34 Ford has a filled roof panel welded in and finished rather nicely. Of course I knew it when I bought the car, same as the shaved handles, hidden hinges , Must 2, and all the other street roddy shit that the PO did to it. But it was a super nice car and very complete, so I bought it anyway. I have countless hours getting it back to a stage that I can live with. I still don't like the firewall, but I am not going hood-less. The one thing I have left that I am tossing around the idea on, is putting a roof insert back in. Have any of you guys ever attempted that, or know anyone who has? I do not see a problem with finding the exact dimensions of the insert, but the channel, molding , and everything else about it may be compromised . So.... can I buy the molding? I feel sure I can get photos of the channel from someone on the HAMB and fabricate it. Is it worth the trouble?

 

How was the roof installed. I have seen a bunch laid over the insert channel and lap welded

 

We removed the factory roof insert channels where I used to work. Sold them to folks wanting to un street rod their cars. We made our own channels to fit flush mounted roof inserts.
There is a bunch of info here on flush inserts. A tack strip is not needed for a flush roof insert.

 

Flush mounted and covered roof insert

 

I don't think that is a job that is really worth doing, from what I've seen and done the channel or track is pretty much rendered useless after a insert is welded in. I've been out of this stuff for a while so I can't say if there are patch panels or tracks for the car. Is it a coupe or sedan? If it is a good job you might just reconsider that project. Was this a finished car or a started project? I built a 34 5W coupe with a filled roof and flatish firewall welded to the curved shape of the cowl in the 70's. Good Luck.

Pat

 

It is a coupe, and yes the whole job looks pretty good. As far as welding, I won't know until I tear into it. Then, of course it will be too late. I cannot find the molding anywhere for a 33 or 34.,just a 32. The flush insert on yours looks good, but if I do it, I think I want factory. With all the shows and runs cancelled, I can't get around to see others. It was a street rod project with all steel fenders and pretty much perfect sheet metal. It has a Bitchin' firewall in it and it is staying this go around. I can live with that. I may have to live with the roof, but I am closing in on getting it done, and when I put a headliner in it, I won't ever look back. That is why I am considering the project.

 

I wouldn't. A filled roof (smooth, not ribbed) was a traditional modification done a thousand times back in the day. A very traditional looking 32 5-window project I'm working on will get a smooth filled roof installed before it's done.

If you have a ribbed roof, I'd cut that out and install a smooth one.

 

It is smooth. I will get out to the shop and post a few pics after while.

 

Get a peak under the headliner and take a pic.
I have seen the original channels stay intact during the roof fill many tines.

 

I can see the perfect outline of the old panel on the inside roof. I will snap some photos for us to mull over in an hour or so.

 

I have a friend that glues the padding, border trim, and grained factory type cover straight to the metal filler insert. It feels just like a factory top unless you give it a real hard thump and then you can tell there is metal underneath instead of chicken wire. Not much different than a vinyl top except more padding. WAY less work and looks great.

 

Any pictures of that?. Sounds much easier without the chance for leakage to boot.

 

My thoughts are exactly as coilover mentioned. Do a glue on using Padded vinyl top 1/8" or 1/4" foam then trim it with Hidem strip screwed in place. You could even use some thin veneer and place it under the foam for a light wood bow transferee look into the top.

 

To start with filled roof is not street roddy nor are the hidden hinges or shaved handles. the pinto front end is though. LOL

The basics of undoing a filled roof are this. remove the filler, restore the drip rails (probably not the correct term), replace the wood and make and install a soft insert.

Now here is a thought, I have not seen it done or tried it myself so this is a rare option from me. Never the less, you could try and make a faux soft insert that is attached to the steel roof, either with snaps or glue or both.

 

Your really close P&B, but no snaps just Glue and Screw through the finish edge trim strip of choice.

 

Thanks guys for all the quick response. I will hear everyone out and make a decision on what to do, if anything. I snapped some photos so you can see what is under the metal. 1st, it is a good job of filling, if I leave it like it is, it is only a modification, more or less traditional, but a modification nonetheless. If I glue a panel on, then it is another modification, on top of the 1st one. If I rip it back apart and ruin the top altogether, then I will have rendered a good modification useless. But the fact remains, heck I want it. here is what I have to work with.

 

Have you looked up the kits here?
https://www.julianos.com/Coupe-Top-Insert-Kit-p/ju0001-asterisk--asterisk-.htm

Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Haven't people used the Julianos kit over filled roofs. Seems like I have seen that in the past.

(Typing at the same time as Johnboy 34)

 

Probably grinding off a shitload of filler will reveal a panel tacked to the factory channel. Hopefully. The last builder may have been a real hero and solid welded the whole damn thing in.
Now theres certainly nothing wrong with asking questions but it tells me that you perhaps arent that experienced which is also ok. But here's the thing. An experienced car builder would look under the roof, determine that the factory channel was there then decide to dive in and no matter what, be able to bring that back to stock. Someone that has to ask is not experienced and may not be able to just fix whats under all that filler too easily.

Now Im not saying you shouldnt dive in. Im also sure you could fix whats there if you put the time in. Im just saying from a guy thats been cutting up cars since I was 14 that you're about to open a huge can of worms. Maybe focus on other aspects of the car. Get it together then do that once its running driving. Plenty of guys do and redo details of cars while driving before they're "done." Just a though.

 

I forgot about them. They didn't come up on a google search. I used them on a set of seat belt plates years ago, good quality product. I will look into it, thanks

 

Also as a side note though I do like a soft roof insert in an old Ford its certainly traditional to fill the roof.

 

I am asking questions as a part of the research process. I also have been cutting up cars for 40 years, but that is beside the point. You bring up a a rather good point, this guy that had the car was a pretty good and thorough builder. Your comment about him and his welding scares me a little. My guess is that he did weld it solid. If you look, the channel does not appear to be warped or shows no signs of excessive heat.
I would have skipped around and welded it a little at a time to keep from damaging the roof too. Thanks for the observation.

 

Take a look at how Rich B added the faux insert onto his Model A coupe in his build thread. Start with this post and keep scrolling. He used a kit from Julianos. And BTW, if you haven't read that thread it's an awesome example of top notch craftsmanship.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...en-year-odyssey.1172804/page-14#post-13368761

 

I remember talking to an upholstery guy from Ohio(Grubb?) back 30 years ago, and he used a Juliano's kit on a glass car, just to give it a old-time look. It mounts where you decide to put it.
That's if you really can't live with the filled roof.

 

Looked it over, very nice work, like you said. Looks like I have options now that I was unable to find without your guy's help. YOUTUBE was absolutely no help on this. Usually I can find just enough on someone's video to get me started, but not this time. My guess is, that this isn't a very common practice and we are scattered all over the world. You just can't run over to a buddies house and look at his old Ford. In a couple of hours, Thanks to the Hamb, I have a good idea how I will approach it. I will post a thread on the process. Maybe it will help somebody else to tackle it. Thanks all

 

Like said above, just put the vinyl over the filled top. I've done it probably 20 times with the universal kit from Mac's. About $125 with the foam and hide-em welt for the edge.

 

I bought the Juliano's kit, but didn't use all of it. The foam they use is too thick, looked like I was hauling a mattress, so i used 1/8th" foam.
I got the measurements from a stock 3-window so it would look right, drew the placement of the insert on the car with a grease pencil. then made a wooden pattern to bend the aluminum channel Juliano's provided to the correct corner radius.
I carefully brushed contact cement to the top of the car, staying within the pencil lines for the foam. I remarked the foam so I could put the aluminum channel over the foam in the proper place. screwed in a couple of self tapping screws and trimmed the foam around the outside of the channel. then removed the channel.
I made a 2X4 frame to hold the vinyl tight and found the outline of the foam and screwed the channel down permanently. Trimmed the vinyl, covered the channel with the black trim that was provided.
If I was to do it again I would probably not use the kit and use original looking material and use some black hide-um from an upholstery shop in stead of the taller trim that was provided in the kit.
I don't know if this has been helpful but that's how I did mine.

Mick

 

Very nice work. We're you able to feel your padding through the taught vinyl? After you stretched it on the buck, did you lay it out in the sun to soften it up more?

 

Julianos kit says drill through the roof and pop rivet the aluminium strip on . Woah that’s not going to happen on an original coupe. We used small counter sunk screws in the original channel, no harm done. The only thing with julianos is the hidem rubber is a little fat and high.
You could fit a julianos kit just inside the original channel on the filler panel only. Leaving the original roof un touched.