Technical New to Flatheads.... Engine noise ? Normal?

Do you think this could have happened from the initial start up,,,,,from before you purchased the car ?
From what I could see,,,,it looks good and clean inside .

You know,,,they don’t look so bad to have such low oil pressure.
I think you had better inspect your pump as well.
Could there be a plug missing from inside the block somewhere,,,,,losing pressure ?

Tommy

 

Not sure. This is the first Ford engine I’ve ever had apart. I didn’t realize the piston skirts had rings on them. I will post more pics tomorrow. This engine has been sitting for awhile. Rebuilt yes. True statement. Freshly rebuilt is bullshit.

 

Yeah,,,they are a 4 ring piston,,,,,surprised me when I first saw them too.
And some fresh rebuilds are not are good as others.
You might also want to check to see if any thing had been looked over.
Does it still have the stock fuel pump.

Tommy

 

I've heard stories of flatheads running forever with 10 pounds of oil pressure. But mine with around 10,000 miles usually runs 50 pounds. I'd think a recently rebuilt engine should hold more than a couple dozen pounds. Mic all the bearings and make sure the machine work was done to specs. Maybe the tolerances were too loose and the knock was a rod, or worse yet a piston. A bearing with only 200 miles shouldn't be worn through to the copper.

 

Electric pump. I was told the motor was a Merc. But I believe it to be a Ford. I measured one of the crank counter weights. And it was about 5.5”. There has been water/antifreeze sit in one cylinder at some point. As there is some discoloring and some slight etching. Does not appear to be recent. Perhaps a head gasket leaking at some point after it was parked or pulled from whatever this engine came from.

 

Okay,,,when you pull the intake,,,look and see if the push rod hole was plugged offf properly.
Also,,,,after you pull a head,,,just check the stroke really quick,,,it will be close enough to check.
It’s a shame that someone will misrepresent the truth like this.

Tommy

 

Throws on crank and bore etch. Plug is present in oil drive passage. Oil pump is Ford M19.

 

Pistons. Sealed power. Date code ? 2002??

 

Good pics,
Yeah,,,that is not a Merc crank.
The journals don’t look bad,,,,but it has definitely been starving for oil.
The nice witness marks where the bearings have rode show it,,,considering no more miles than it has on it.
And you are right.,,,somewhat of a stain that bore your showing,,,maybe it didn’t hurt it.

In the tappet chamber,,,,,where the fuel pump shaft was blocked off,,,,,,is that just a press in cup plug ?
Os is that oil puddled up in the hole ?

Tommy

 

There is a press in plug in that galley hole...Not sure what to do next?..There is one actual machine shop in the area and they are great for turning rotors etc....I am def replacing the oil pump...I have read the debates on this subject...But would a high volume unit hurt my cause?....Here is the thing and not trying to sound like I am being cheap as I been in this hobby long enough to know it's not a cheap one to do properly....This car will probably be driven maybe 500-600 miles or less per year...I don't want to half a$$ it...But also don't want to spend a fortune on an engine in a driver grade fiberglass car either...I hope that makes sense

 

On the date code,,,,it depends on the manufacturer.
I work for an auto supplier,,we supply components to all the big guys.
Some customers want the Julian date,,,,some week code and year,,,,some just want a run code,,,,(letter and number ).

Tommy

 

Absolutely makes sense to me,,,,,don’t throw money at it .
Now,,,,on the plug,,,,does it still have the bushing in place,,,,or is it just a cup plug driven into the hole ?
This is important .

Oh yeah,,,,before you throw away a perfectly good pump,,,I am pretty sure that is a new one.
I suspect it is working just fine,,,I think you are bleeding off so much pressure,,it can’t keep up.

Tommy

 

Check the cam bearings. One loose cam bearing can bleed off a lot of oil. You could put it all back together and plumb an oil primer up to it and see where oil is going.

 

It looks to me that the plug is straight into the casting. Would the plug be driven into the center of a bushing if it were present? Plug looks staked at front. Another thing I thought was strange. When I removed the oil filter canister. There was no oil in the return line going back into the side of block just above the pan rail. When I removed the lid. Oil flowed out of the line. I thought of removing and plugging the filter ports when reassembled?? Oil filter is the dreaded Orange (Fram ) at least in these parts...Every since all the Hecks discount stores closed. Lee's aren't available..LOL

 

Okay,,,so it sounds like the passage is open under that plug.
The bushing should be in there and then the plug.
Otherwise,,,the oil journal is completely exposed and allows most of the oil to go there instead.

The oil should stay up in the filter,,,,as long as it’s sealed right.
It acts just like you putting your finger over the top of a straw,,,and raising it from your glass,,,,the liquid will stay there as long as it has a vacuum against it.
Otherwise,,,every time you shut down your engine it would drain out to the pan.

Tommy

 

I understand how this is your first Flathead,,,,mine too,,,,,but you have done a lot of other engines work.
These are still the same,,,,just somewhat different.
All the normal things apply here too.
Oil flow is oil flow,,,,bearing clearance is bearing clearance.
Don’t let it spook you,,,,there is no black magic in them.
Once you study the layout,,and understand the oil system,,,it is fairly simple.

Tommy

 

No,,,,the original bushing would have to be removed to clean the oil passage.
There is a would of funk that build up in there,,,trust me.
So,,,the guy did right removing it to clean the block.
He just didn’t know to replace it,,to preserve the oil pressure.
Seems like my bushing mic,d about .595 o.d.,,,and is a fairly tight fit in the block.
By all means,,,remove the plug and check that really good.
I suspect that is your entire problem.

Tommy

 

Appears bushing has been removed

 

You learn something new every day! Right on Tommy!


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Here in this pic I marked up it illustrates where the oil comes from.

The green line shows the oil journal from the pump,,,,the narrow green is straight from the oil pump,,,,the wide green is the main oil galley to the rest of the engine.
The red line is the crescent shape in the pic,,,it shows the galley that feeds the fuel pump rod.
The blue line is the opening in the cam bearing that leads to the cam eccentric that drives the rod.

Without this bushing in place,,,most of the oil that is supposed to go to the rest of the engine is diverted down that hole.
That is why all the bearings at the other end were starving for oil.
The rear most main and last two rod bearings are fed from the galley beside the oil pump...they get oil first,,technically. The rear main has its own dedicated oil galley.
The rest get oil from the top galley straight from the pump.
I believe this will fix your problem.

 

With no mechanical pump is the push rod still there? With out the spring pressure the rod might not be following the cam eccentric at that engine speed and actually floating at higher speeds.

 

Valvoline 20/50 racing oil ...use & drive

 

You know,,,I wonder how many other engines have had this same problem and no one checked it,,,just kept running with 10-20 pounds of pressure.
Maybe the engine was never revved high enough to cause a concern ?

Tommy

 

My flathead is a 59A, but the same thing could be done to yours: Since I currently had an electric pump but didn't know if I'd ever want to install a mechanical, I just put a short pump rod in the hole. I put a bugger of weld on the side of the rod so it wouldn't slide all the way down the bushing to contact the cam, and then cut the top off just under the top of the intake manifold. Should I ever want to install a mechanical pump I can just yank this rod out and install a new one.

Also, check to see if your oil filter canister has a restricting port on the inward side. There needs to be a very small hole in one of the bushings or fittings to reduce the flow and keep pressure in the rest of the engine's system. Usually about 1/16" diameter. Check all the ends of those brass fittings on the side of the canister. If you don't have one that will reduce the flow, it's easy to solder one up and drill the correct hole.

 

I thought it was strange that the return side (assume since it’s not coming out of the galley area) the one above pan rail. Had no oil when I disconnected it. But when I removed the canister lid. The oil flowed out of the line. Is this normal? Only time I’ve had this type of filter was on 45 Willy’s Jeep and never noticed or checked before.

 

Not trying to foster more questions but, read about fuel pump push rods and bushing here:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search.php?searchid=14137479

 

It sure looks like you’ve found the problem but many years ago I had one were a performance reground cam was used and the journals were cut down .030 and was installed in a set of std size bearing. It had the same oil pressure symptoms that you were having but also had valve train noise due to the valve adjustment was all over the place with the cam bouncing around. Not sure if you are planning on taking it apart that much but maybe worth a look. I ended up locating oversized bearings and that took care of it.


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Exactly.


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The standard bushing for the pump pushrod has a .060 drilled in it. As said, without that bushing, you lose a ton of oil pressure. That cup plug would have needed to be long enough to extend down and cover the oil passage hole. The oil then bypasses around the plug to the engine through a cast enlargement around the bushing.

 

Thank you all again for the help. I’m new to flathead Fords. Not to cars. I knew something wasn’t right. But I guess I wanted someone to say “Hey they all do that. “.