Technical Clutch Setup - 4 speed conversion on 57 Chevy

Yep!AFAIK

 

I had so many trucks I forget where it came from. Possibly from my cousin's 396 after he wrecked his '68 panel truck.

 

Yes they used that same fork with the truck hyd clutch. However it was on the passenger side of the bellhousing.

 

Ok that's why I put it up. I understand fully about clip easily getting bent. It happens when muscling it to much. How it falls off the ball is odd by design. It can't back away. It can go inward and fall off easily before linkage is all in place but you just pull it back. Do you still have adjustable pivot ball in place? If so it may be adjusted incorrectly and aggravating the situation.

 

I'm wondering if that's exactly what happened - a combination of me distorting it during install, and compounding it by having the pivot ball way off. I'm thinking that if I adjust the ball in more (towards the back of the car) it'll compress the spring clip more and put more tension on the back side of ball. Of course, I can't adjust the ball with the transmission in place, so I think I'm just going to have to accept the fact that the whole thing is going to need to come out again...

 

^^^^^ Yes you'll have to pull it down. Stock part's don't need that adjustable pivot. Save yourself the trouble of finding the sweet spot and replace pivot with a stock unit.

 

FWIW I measured the position of a stock ball in a factory bell, it is 4 3/4” from the block side to the flat on the ball. You may want to use that as a point of reference with your adjustable ball.

 

I definitely will. Thanks @Fordors !

 

This is why the HAMB still rules.
Where else would one get access to this sort of info in this efficient a manner?

 

Be careful as there is more than one height pivot ball for Chevy ...

 

I'm going to give is a shot one more time with the adjustable pivot ball - hopefully getting the clip bent back into shape and the ball cranked down more towards back of the bellhousing will do the trick.

In the meantime, what should I be looking for in the way of a stock pivot ball? I've got the short TO bearing, 1.25". Hopefully it has a wider flat on the backside to engage both sides of the clip.

 

the length of the TO bearing depends on the type of pressure plate you have, that's all.

 

As a Ford guy, I always heard that Chevy stuff fit everything...

 

You got that right !!!!

 

I made one comment early on in this thread, and I have't been following it since. First of all, the guys who say "ALL" 55-57 Chevrolet "PARTS" are the same, are WRONG; there are slight differences in all the 55-57 years Chevrolet, and if you start crossbreeding parts, they may not work well together. ALWAYS use the same year stick shift parts, preferably for the year car, but at least be all the same year. IE: 55 V-8 stick shift assembly in a 57; don't use a 55 bellhousing, a 57 starter motor (they are differenct in how they mount up), or try using a 56 clutch pedal assembly the 57; a bunch of mismatched parts. Basically, match ALL your parts. 57 uses some slightly difference pedal-linkage-bellcrank-pushrod assembly than the 55-56, and even those are a bit different. You can do "some" crossbreeding of parts, and make them work, and I'm wondering if that's what you have going on. The splines on the clutch linkage crosshaft under the dash have to align with the splines in the underdash lever, and they have to be TIGHT; those are where the aftermarket parts fail, as the splines often strip out or allow for movement that can't be "adjusted' out.. The frame mounted "ball" for the Z-bar has to be mounted absolutely spot on; it shows exactly where in the 57 Assembly Manual right down to +/- hundreths of an inch, and if you don't have a copy of that book, better get one. The 57 Z-bar is slightly different, with a completely different pushrod/throwout bearing lever than 55-56. As far as an "adjustable" pivot ball, if you have a stock bellhousing, then use a stock ball; nothing else should be needed in that regard. And AGAIN, there are very slight differences in 55-57 V-8 bellhousings, most notably in the 55 and it's unique pivot ball (it's adjustable); yes 55 used a different pivot ball than 56-57. So, my question to you is, what parts do you have, the years they were meant for, match up for the year, and are they installed correctly? For instance, most guys, when converting from automatic to stick shift, don't use the bushings in the underdash crosshaft, and the clutch pedal is loose/sloppy, and therefore harder to adjust the clutch correctly. They don't k now about the bushings, so they don't use any. Maybe you can provide some photos of what you have going on? I don't post photos, so I understand if you don't either. To make sure you have the absolute right throwout bearing, MEASURE for them: measure from the bellhousing transmission mount surface to the clutch fingers. Then, take the throwout bearing and slide it onto the throwout bearing collar, and slide it back towards the transmission until it bottoms out. Measure from the transmission mount surface to the end of the throwout bearing where it would contact the throwout bearing. Subtract the "smaller' meaurement from the "larger" measurement; you need about 1/4 inch (or slightly more) so the clutch will disengage; too much gap causes the same issue. And remember, as the clutch disc wears, that measurement will change, it will get smaller until everything bottoms out and you won't be able to adjust the clutch correctly-there will be NO gap, so you have to take that into consideration. Photos?
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Hey @56sedandelivery ,thanks for the tips. All the new stuff I had to get was for a 57, and same goes for the OE parts. I know there were some subtle differences among the tri fives, so I did as much research as I could beforehand to try to avoid creating more problems for myself,, but we see how that turned out...

When I take everything out, I'll take a bunch of pics and show you guys what I'm working with. It's gonna stay in for a couple more days, I want to get the crossmember squared away while everything is in. One of the POs had a TH350 in it, and 'welded' some 'mounts' to the frame right where the Speedway crossmember needs to go, so I've gotta cut them out first.

 

I went back to the previous pages, and looked at what you had. The adjustable pivot ball really has nothing to do with the throwout bearing "adjustment"; it is what it is, can't be changed from contact with the fingers or how far back it seats on the collar; the "geometry" involved in the leverage might be affected very SLIGHTLY, but I have a hard time even seeing that. There's a LOT of mismatched parts in these 4 pages of this thread, and a lot of confusion. Even your fork appears to be a Camaro/Nova/Chevelle type; there's a posting of a "Tri-Five fork" that's really a 57 only fork, not a 55-56 style, and do you have some type of lock washers on the flywheel to crankshaft flange? I just hate to see anyone having to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, having to figure out why something is't working the way it should. You can probably use a pushrod meant for a Camaro/Nova/Chevelle, IF it's long enough, just be sure to use the trunnion that goes with it for adjustability, it's fine threads, while the 57 is course threads,IF I remember correctly. And, use the spring that helps keep everything in contact to prevent rattling; that'll drive you nuts thinking something is wrong when it's not. These cars are't like more modern ones; a lot of the parts are't readily available, and re-popped ones just are't the same, as far as fitment and strength goes. Unless you actually need the adjustable pivot, go with a stock one; it'll really simplify things. Like I said in my last post, get an assembly manual if you don't already have one, and along with all the information, and measurements involved, it also supplies the PART NUMBERS. Can't beat that! I have a friend that deals in 55-57 Chevrolet cars AND used parts; if there's anything you need, I may be able to get it from him. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Hey Butch, thanks for the info. I think I'm doing okay with parts so far, but I'm sure that will change. I dont think I want to use the later model fork, but it did sit better on the pivot ball. Once I pull it all out again, I'll do a comparison and fool around with it a bit.

Also, not using lock washers on the flywheel bolts. Blue loctite on the threads and a little ARP lube under the head before torquing them.

Got the other old trans mount out today:



And got the crossmember where I want it.



I'm gonna mark the frame for the Z bar pivot while everything is in, and then it'll come out so I can get the clutch fork sorted out. Thanks for the help guys!

 

Is that a Corvette transmission; the reason I ask is, it appears to have a bolt on yoke, and you need an actual slip yoke. C-2 onward Corvettes had IRS, so the driveshaft was solidly mounted at both ends as no slip was required. Or maybe that's a yoke you had laying around and used it to prevent the transmission from marking it's territory? Would still have a center bolt hole that would leak. I had the same transmission crossmember, decided I was't going to use it, and sold it and a side engine mount kit to another HAMBER; been a few years now. Goold luck. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Thanks for the heads up. It is a Corvette transmission, 78 I believe. But, its also a slip yoke, no center bolt hole. Not sure if it's original to the car, it came with the trans when I picked it up. It may very well have been a yoke he had laying around to keep it from leaking.

 

Finished up the crossmember, so this happened:



I can call it a 4 speed now, right?

 

You have done well Kemosahbee! Now, for next time consult a few 57 guys and we will save you a lot more time and energy just using the stock mounts.


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Believe me, there are times I wish I had just gone back to stock!

 

I say this from experience because I’m guilty! Could have had my roadster on the road yrs ago if I hadn’t decided to go a different route.


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Got the trans crossmember finished up. To those that aren't familiar, the speedway brackets have two outboard brackets that sit on the frame, and the crossmember itself sits on the brackets. You can see them pretty good in the picture I posted before. The brackets are secured to the frame by two big self tappers. They probably won't see any load, just there to keep the brackets in place and hanging off the frame. Its also a really tight fit between the frame rails, the rails would have to twist pretty violently to allow the brackets to move. That said, I'll still feel better with a couple short beads run on either side.

I was hoping to use the driveshaft I have, but it looks like its just too long. The bellhousing and the ST-10 are longer than the BOP TH350 that was in the car when I got it (and the PO had the engine set forward to boot) so I'll have to bite the bullet on a driveshaft. I've read to slide the yoke all the way in until it bottoms, pull it out an inch, and take your measurement in that position? That should give the yoke adequate room to move in and out?

While everything is bolted in, I marked where the frame side Z bar pivot needs to go. I have a junky secondhand MIG , but its not really powerful enough for anything useful, has never really worked right and I've never been all that good at it. I briefly thought about a good way to bolt the pivot to the frame - maybe a couple rivnuts in the frame and countersunk allen head bolts with loctite? Then I convinced myself that the MIG was at least worth a shot, and if I failed, I'll go back to the drawing board. So I dragged the MIG out to see if was operational, its probably been a decade since I fooled around with it. I plugged it in and turned it on, and the amp dial sparked. Welp, something isn't right. Opened it up, and there was about 2 yards of solid core wire wrapped around just about everything. It had gotten hot, too, and melted through the insulation on a dozen wires. How did it even get in there? Pulled it all out, taped up the insulation on the wires, and gave it another shot. Didn't spark this time, so that was a positive. Hit the trigger, and the wire wasn't advancing. Looked down at the MIG, and its definitely unspooling...so whats the issue? Pulled off the little cover over where the wire exits the roller and enters the liner, and its a rat's nest. Clipped the wire out and rethreaded the liner with fresh, straight wire, and it still won't feed and just continues to snarl just after the roller and before the liner. Maybe the liner is kinked somewhere? At any rate, I decided to pack it all back up and go in a different direction:



No reason why I can't weld with this traditional method, right? Let's see if I remember how. Its only been about 25 years, so I'll need some practice. I think I've read just about every thread on here about gas welding in the past couple days.

Its a Victor 100FC torch. The only welding nozzle I have is a #2, which didn't seem like it had quite enough oomph for the piece of scrap I was testing everything out on. The pivot ball bracket is in the neighborhood of 3/16", so I'll need a #3 nozzle (now on order). Tanks are probably too small too (almost empty anyway) so I'll need to address that. However, I'm now excited about welding, instead of dreading it, like I was with the MIG.

 

I whip out my trusty Lincoln 225 for everything heavy, go with the torch to silver solder and braze. I should one day break down and go MIG or TIG, I have tried it in the past and have liked it. I learned how to gas weld in college.

 

Gas welding is the only welding that I was ever actually 'taught'. I fooled around with the MIG and could make ugly, lumpy welds, but I always felt like it was going too fast for me. Except of course, when I went too slow and burned through something.

This also has the added degree of difficulty of being mostly vertical, so this should be entertaining.

 

Ugh.. vertical welding... not my favorite. Everything on my car we did on the bench or worked like a gentleman outside. The cross member in my Ford comes out easy enough but takes 3 guys and a porta-power to get back in. The flanges at the chassis are angled and the frame comes in just enough while the car is apart. The next time I have it out I'll either install a new one or cut the existing one up so it goes in square. I have a Speedway one like yours laying around.

 

The Speedway one looked real slick and mocked up real easy, but once I ran the self tappers into the frame and hung the brackets, I discovered I had to grind notches into the ears of the crossmember, to clear the heads of the self tappers. It was a tight fit going in, a porta power would have come in handy...