Hot Rods Rear wheels move in and out

On my '47 Ford with an 8" Ford rear end, on jack stands, if you grab a tire at top and bottom and push-pull in and out, there is about 1/16" to 3/32" movement. Coddington wheels are bolted solid to hubs so no movement there. That just leaves the carrier bearings, right? No apparent noise or vibration of any kind, but wore out a pair of tires in about 30K miles. Is this common? I guess I've never checked for movement here before on any rear end, but seeing as how the pressed-on wheel bearing is all that holds the axle in, it kind of creeps me out.

 

No, movement in and out is not good. Pull the wheel and brake drum and find out what's going on. I have actually had the Wedding ring that holds the bearing in place let go. NOT GOOD!!

 

I actually drilled and bolted an angle iron bar to the axle hub vertically, pulled on it and it moved as if there was slop on the inside splines. It's a used Granada rear end with lord knows how many miles on it. (Swap meet) Your comment convinces me that I'd better try to rebuild or replace it. I've got 43K miles on the little car.

 

The Wizzard is right; you've got a problem that needs to be looked at....

It may be bad axle bearings, although if they're that loose they usually make noise. A loose retaining ring will only be part of the problem. If the axle can move in the bearing, your axles are bad as the bearings are supposed to be a press fit on the axle. If there was a bearing failure in the past that galled the axle and somebody 'cleaned it up' before pressing a new bearing on, it may be undersized now and you'll need new axles. Also look at the brake backing plate thickness and any gaskets between the housing/backing plate and backing plate/retainer. By design, the axle retainer is supposed to clamp the bearing firmly into the housing, any excess thickness in the backing plate or gaskets will prevent that.

My experience is that a small amount of in/out movement is acceptable (on the order of about .020") but more than that is a problem. Whatever the issue is, it'll be in the axle bearings, your pumpkin should be fine.

 

In and Out is a burger not good for rear wheels. I'm betting a bearing and possibly its pressed inner race.

 

There has been an issue with a manufacturers retaining rings in the past

 

I'll add a bit to this. Cheep off shore Axle Bearings seem to be rampet and along with them inferior retainers or as we used to call them Wedding Rings. Both 8" and 9" ford Axles have used them forever. A good bearing had a Wedding Ring made out of D.O.M. tube with a tight press fit while the actual Bearing was just an interference fit not so much a press fit. The Wedding ring was about 1/2" wide and total thickness was the same all the way across. The Cheep Charlie shit is a ring Stamped and folded. Total Junk at best. Having not checked to see what was in the used complete rear end I had bought it only took about 6K miles to find out. For me the worst part was the ride home on the back of the Stretcher. It could have just as well taken out a Quarter panel or worse involved another vehicle. Here's 2 photos of the P.O.S. If your retainer has a step in it like this one you have a problem.
These pieces of Shit are made from flat plate and punched in a drop press. In this procedure the inner circle is full of small fractures. This is why they don't stay in place. Look close at this photo.
All those little lines are fractures done in the forming process. This part is the only thing that keeps the Bearing on the Axle, the Axle in the housing and the wheel on the Car. Now would be a good time to go physically inspect what you have. I was just plain lucky when mine failed.

 

Thanks Crazy Steve. I'm not explaining the problem right. The bearings are almost new and are tight. No up and down or in and out movement. THE PROBLEM is that you can tip the tire/wheel in and out if you grab it at top and bottom and the movement has to be coming from the 3rd member. Either there is slop in the carrier bearings or slop in the splines. My question should have been better explained. I just wondered if any of you guys had experienced this before. The tire/wheel don't move if you grab it left and right and try to get it to move. Only if you push in at the top and pull out at the bottom of the tire, or vice versa. Does that explain it better? Now I'm worried that it will work on the bearings and they can crack the rings or let the axle work out of the housing. Just wondering if this movement could be considered normal on a used third member. Axle splines look okay. Haven't dropped the 3rd member out yet. Don't know exactly what I'm looking for.

 

Where do you live ?

 

Axel go into spider gears not carrier bearing

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is going to be interesting. You are right to be a bit concerned.

 

I've never heard of Spider gears or Axle splines that loose without a terrible noise at the very lease.

 

are the axle bearings tight in the tubes

 

Spider gears tearing through my Dana 60 diff cover and bouncing down the road was like a gun going off....lol.

 

Is it even possible to put small bearings in a large bearing housing and keep any gear lube in it?

 

Good question

 

It's probably the coddington wheels not flat on the brake drum. HRP

 

Wouldn't that mean loose Lug bolts as well?

 

What if the wheels were of Shank style lug bolts and they were to long and tight on the stud but not holding the wheel against the drum?

 

If you did this then it isn't the wheels...

 

well that's not what it is

 

If the carrier bearings were that sloppy, the pumpkin should be howling like a banshee...

Pull the axles and pumpkin and look; if there's a problem it will be obvious. I'd be much more inclined to think that this would be in the housing, the bores that the axle bearings go into are hogged out from a bearing spinning in the bore. Or more likely if the housing is bent (much more common on Ford rears that you think, particularly if they've been welded on or narrowed without a fixture), the PO had trouble getting the axles in so enlarged the bores until they slipped in. I'll also mention that if a housing-mount rear sway bar is installed, those can bend the housing also.

If you do find damaged/enlarged bearing bores in the housing, if there's no in-out play I'd probably ignore it if the axle seals look like they're doing their job. If short seal life and/or leaking is an issue, then you'll need new ends installed on the housing.

As an aside, bent housings can be identified by how hard it is to remove/install the axles. If it's straight and the axle bearing bores are clean, the axles should remove/install by hand or with light tapping. Slight misalignment is acceptable (a bit more enthusiasm on the tapping), if you need one good hard whack to get past a tight spot that's OK too. But if you have to really beat on them all the way in or out, the housing is bent enough to sharply reduce bearing life. Learned this one the hard way...

I'd still also take a hard look at the axle flanges, drums, etc to make sure the drums/wheels are fully seated. If you find brinelling around one or two wheel studs, the drum/wheel isn't seating all the way.

 

I had this issue with a pumpkin type 59 Chevrolet rear. The Axle had so much play it would let it move.Put a different axle in ,no more problem. Be sure to let us know what you find.

 

Not necessarily, it's a common problem with early Ford wire wheels not fitting flush, some of the the aftermarket wheels require a spacer to fit flush. HRP

 

You didn't say where you were supporting the car when applying the force............are you sure it's the axle and not the entire differential that is moving?

 

Thanks Texas 57. I've had the rear end supported in various ways (floor jack, jack stands, etc.). It's not that.

 

4 Corners, Colorado (near Dolores)

 

Somebody might be willing to come by and help if we had a clue where in the world you are