Technical GM Crate Engine Problems?

I was talking with a long time rodder at a cruise night last night. Really nice guy, seemed be a straight up guy. He has a very nice 40 Ford coupe with a GM 350/330 HP engine. He bought the Engine directly through GM Performance. He was telling me that it had a vibration in the engine. GM refused to honor the warranty because it was in a hot rod. He pulled it apart and sent the rotating assembly out to check for balance. The machine shop called him and told him that the crank could not be balanced as it was way too far out. Further, they found a couple of twisted con rods and no two pistons matched. Either in size or weight. Now, the machine shop weren't out to sell parts as they advised him to bring in new parts. I've had two ZZ4 engines and both have been very good. Anyone else ever run into a problem with these crate engines? Maybe he got a "Monday morning" engine?

 

I bought a HT 383 in 2005 from the local chevy dealer for my 1970 camaro. 4120.00 The parts guy greg Rose said "We will warranty it but you need to come back here with it running in your car. So after I got it running drove back to the dealership and did three burnouts around the building. Greg said sounds good al, but the owner called the cops. So I went home , nothing became of it. Engine is still running well today.

 

I hate hearing that, who can you trust anymore? GM knows the large majority of guy purchase these engine for their car hobby, not their elder aunts 4 door nova. Seems wrong to pay for a crate motor, and tear it down to check all the internals and clearances. Maybe one of the cores they took in, they cleaned it up and sent it right back out.

 

Yes, I bought a new crate engine at the chevy dealership that burned oil on two cylinders. It took a quart every 500 miles until I pulled it out. I never have looked inside to find the problem

 

Pain in the ass.....
Skip the dealer. Send all the documentation straight to GM.

 

I think in the old days it was hit and miss whether you got a good or bad engine, but nowadays it would appear that they get it right way more many times than wrong.
I guess it is still the luck of the draw, but if you get a good one, like me you give a good review, but sadly if you are the poor unlucky guy who gets the Monday morning or Friday afternoon build, well you going to let the world know about it...
That said, if the warranty is worth having, then it is not the end of the world, but being what warranty's are these days, it is real tough...

 

If I were to pay brand new price for a crate engine from GM, that thing had better run like a brand new engine or it’s going back. I’m not paying new price for a core that needs to be torn down, sent to the machine shop, and have the entire bottom end replaced. That’s not “warranty”, that’s fraud.


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There's another thread going on here documenting my struggles with a 290 HP crate engine and my experience with the dealer to date.

 

Never heard of any GM crate engine problems in my group of Rodders that purchased one, maybe 15+,all the way from 350 to 572. myself 1 350 from Jegs, no problem, also a 355 speed shop crate, again no problems. Have you done business with the machine shop that you took parts to, got any references on them. Sadly, here in Wisconsin, Milwaukee area there are several shops, some of questionable business tactics from my own experiences with them. It's hard to believe GM quality control has slipped that far. I wondered how the warranty deal worked on these engines, you're the first I have read about problems. Try to get a GM rep involved, maybe help ?

 

Yeah. He tried the dealer first, got shot down there then went to GM directly and got the same story.

 

He had used the machine shop many times before and was always satisfied. The place had a good reputation.

 

I have a hard time believing this. I would have to see the warranty conditions that void the warranty if it's used in a a certain car. I've seen many who say they got a GM crate engine but it was actually a rebuilt engine from some other rebuilder. I'd have taken it o court in a heartbeat.

 

That makes you wonder a bit with all of the vendors that sell rebuilt crate engines around. Was the engine in question indeed a new in the GM box crate motor or did it come from a rebuild shop?

The only problem I saw or heard of on the Crate motors direct from GM was that there was a time period where you needed to pull the pan and check to make sure the rods and mains were torqued right. That was on the Target motors they sold for about a thousand bucks 20 or so years ago.

 

My brother bought a new Monte Carlo in '77 or '78 ,it burned oil and no power from the start.
After several trips back to the dealer, they (dealer/GM) pulled the engine down and found standard pistons in a .030 block. Can't remember if they rebuilt that one under warranty or replaced it, but no problems after that.
Even a new out the door assembly-line car can have a bad one

 

One summer I saw 2 Target Master small block V8s that had blown up, one with 5000 miles the other with 20000. Both were blown bad enough to smash the block. Both lying behind local garages. This was in the mid 80s. Have been leery of GM crate motors ever since. Don't know if they have gotten any better, from this thread it sounds like they have gotten worse. Aren't they made in Mexico now?

 

I bought mine from Hadley Chevrolet in Fredericksburg Va. the company's eBay rep told me that it would have a 1 year warranty since it was going into a car it was not the direct replacement for. Have been apart of several crate motor installs and never a bad one.

 

I have a 290 HP 350 CI GM crate motor in my daily driven O/T truck which I bought from a local Chevy new car dealer in 2008. It has a 100,000 miles on it and still run like a bat out of hell. Changed the oil and filter regularly and never over heated it.The only issue I have is a wisp of smoke out of the driver side tail pipe when I fire it up, this started at about 50,000 miles.

 

Those targetmaster 350s we're garbage! Had a lady come to the garage where I was working at the time and her car was burning oil and had lifter noises... The motor looked somewhat new... When I yanked the valve covers off, I noticed 5 of the rocker studs were sticking out almost a 1/4"...

 

Got an early ZZ engine, a ZZ3. Yes it too has a vibration. Noticed it at 300 miles, still noticeable at 2500 miles. What gives?

 

There were 2 guys locally who each bought a crate motor from the local GM dealer......both had loose rod caps and rattled pretty bad......both had to be torn down and thoroughly checked.......both engines were made in Mexico.......the dealer did nothing to compensate for the bad workmanship from their factory.

 

Yep we'll have a new, full time hobby and they aren't going to like it very much.

 

I bought a GMPP 350 Long Block (part #10067353) from Summit on 2/24/16. The "stated" warranty from GM is 3yrs./100,000 miles. The engine was installed in a 1978 K10 P/U truck that was in excellent condition other than the engine being tired from normal use.
I installed the new GM long block along with a new 350 turbo transmission from Monster performance.
Everything that wasn't included on the engine (harmonic balancer, flexplate, etc) was bought new and installed to complete the installation.

Recently during normal driving I noticed that the oil pressure had dropped to about 10 pounds at idle. I new something wasn't right. I got back to the shop and after a thorough visual inspection, I found excessive crankshaft end-play (3/8"-1/2"). The engine has just over 41,000 miles on it.
I pulled the oil pan and sure enough the front of the thrust bearing was worn down and the face of the thrust flange on the crank was "machined " down which ruined the crank.

I followed all of the procedures to get a replacement engine (this required a lot of paper work, emails, and carrying the engine to the nearest local GM dealership). I got a case number about 3 days later and a notice that GM engineering was reviewing my case. The next thing that happened was a guy from the local dealership called me and asked what transmission did the truck have in it? I told him it was a turbo 350 hydra-matic. Two days later the dealership called and told me my warranty claim was denied because of improper installation. When I asked what the reason for denying the claim was they said that the pilot bushing (that came installed from the factory) wasn't removed when the engine was installed (which was a load of BS since the converter nose didn't come in contact with the bushing, and there was no interference mating the trans to the engine during assembly.)
Furthermore, I adhered to and followed the installation instructions and recommendations that were supplied with the engine and the instructions did not state anywhere that the manual bronze bushing must be removed (I've had many SBC straight shift engines that I've installed into automatic cars/ trucks and experienced no problems).
I don't know if I'll have any success in trying to get GM to honor their warranty (ongoing for 2 weeks now), but I do know I wouldn't recommend their crate engines if you have the ability to spec, build, and blueprint your own engine. I've built more engines than I can count over the last 45 yrs. ( from industrial, street, competition, marine, and everything between) and I won't source another part from GM!!! They're not the same company I worked for as a line mechanic from 1978 - 86'.

 

I have seen a few with issues-ZZ4-ZZ3-lots of piston rattle when cold-clears up after a bit but still noticable. 290/350-rocker adjustment all over the place--some too tight -some way loose. Front seal in timing cover looked like it was beat in with a sledge hammer!!--all these were direct from GM

 

If there was any interference with the bushing and the converter wouldn't the crank be pushed forward and wear the back side of the bearing? I don't see any way a transmission manual or auto would wear the front side if the thrust bearing.

 

might have to do that the crate engines are made in Mexico
Gm doing its best to make America strong again !!!!
serves all you guys right , buying a Mexican 350 to put in a Ford !!!!!

 

I recall a letter published in Street Rodder Magazine from GM Corporate headquarters regarding the Company's delight that the SBC was the 'choice of engines' for (at the time) '25 plus years' by 'Street Rodders everywhere'!
There was to be a 'program' for warranty of new crate engines from GM, when installed in cars 'other than Chevrolets'...(not in those words, but that meaning)

Not really 'off topic', but poor Q.C. can happen anywhere:

About 'Quality Control': I worked for BMW of N. America for years...starting in mid-'60s.
In 1974, a BMW dealership took a new 2002 model (2000 cc, '2 door') off the new car delivery trailer, engine had a decisive 'knock'. I examined it, #1 con rod (distinctive)
Raised the car, dropped the pan. Moved the rod laterally. Removed the cap, inspected the #1 journal. Looked fresh...Mic'd it, Holy Crow! .25 mm (.010") undersize! NEW BMW!
Rod brg was STD. (LOL, ???) All the rest were standard, crank journals and bearings. Just the #1 was undersize. (and perfect 'First Size Under', machined that way!)
I 'obeyed' the Regional Service Rep, inserted a .010" undersize bearing on that one journal.
My 'opinion' was this: NEW BMW, ($$$$) Product deserved a new Standard crank, (as did the paying customer)
Service Rep 'winked' at me, said "Dead men tell no tales..." He must have been kidding.

Some local 'rodders' here have mechanical backgrounds...One 'mechanic' had a '35 Plymouth with a SBC (!!) with an obvious rod knock. He asked 5 or 6 guys what they thought it was...yeah, everything from a 'flat cam' to 'cam end play', then 'distributor drive', and 'oil pump'. These assholes couldn't tell a woodwind from a steel guitar!
Told the guy what it was...Pulled a plug wire, ("See?") No reaction. Then, simply increased RPM to 2300...level off...'Noca-noca-noca' Some of you guys know the noise...("I'm a loose con rod! Help!") O.K., loose translation.
There were 3 differebt instances. All the 'rodders' owning the knocking rods were in deep 'denial'...Why is this? It's ONLY A MACHINE!!!!

 

Problem as i see it , theres no way you can really tell where the "crate engine" came from!! May or may not be a GM engine......

 

...Pull a sonic GM lie detector test...

 

I have the exact same motor, and it does run good...here's my issue...it does not seem to pull full vaccum at idle.
I have a speed density TPI set up on it, and many times at idle it wants to surge, (from about 700RPM's to 1000-1100).
My thought is the computer reads low vaccum, and tells the injectors...more fuel. This presents a problem when driving at an intersetion, as in gear it wants to creep when it surges...have to ride the brake. I can't find anyone who will tell me it can be programmed out. Fine while driving at higher rpms. Anyone else have that issue with the 290 hp GM crate. g-willys

 

There could be a few issues.
Verify your IACV is not loose or leaking.
Verify your grounds are clean and tight, no paint or corrosion at the connections.
But most likely a vacuum leak is present somewhere, you will need to verify that all vacuum hoses, and the booster itself, is not leaking.
Verify the engine is solid, do a compression check on all cylinders.

It probably is not a program issue.
Read more about TPI >
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/adjusting-your-tps-and-iac.168/
Since TPI is definitely OT.