Can you build a real Chevy 302?

I'd like to build one based on the L-99 crankshaft...

 

anyone know if the L99 is cast or forged though??

 

It's a cast iron crank.... I can't afford an early large main steel crank weather it's a GM stock Z/28 or aftermarket.... You'll also need the connecting rods from the same motor.. (L99)???? and 350 pistons to make it work. A 1 piece rear seal 350 block. The question I have is, can I use the early heads and intake manifolds on this motor?? How about an early style water pump from the '70's???

 

That was only in '69.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrqGPps1ek

Cool video of a 302 on the engine dyno

 

All LT1 and L99 cranks are cast, but frankly the newer castings are pretty good. Only the LT4 crank was forged, and its a regular 3.48 stroke.

I saw one of the posts about using a GEN II LT1 block with this crank, and it could be done, easily, with factory parts except maybe for pistons (and you could used 302 pistons for that). Having messed with LT1s for several years, I would say they are just too problematic to bother with, unless you have a car that came with one and are kind of stuck with it.

Honestly, unless you already have the makings of a real 302, or are doing a 301 for nostalgia purposes, I don't know why anyone would bother with one. Unless you have an extremely light car, with a lot of gear, why would you want a peaky, high RPM motor that you'll never be able to wind out on the street anyway? A 302 couldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass at low speed.

I recently had a customer's DZ 302 rebuilt for a '69 Z/28, and it went back with an Eagle 3.75 crank and rods. We call it the DZ 383, and even in stock appearing dress (original heads, intake, carb, etc), it makes a lot more power. He had to learn how to drive the car all over again.

 

Hello there I had a 302 out of a transam car. The fello that gave it to me held on to the heads and intake.That was in 1977 I think I hauled it around in the trunk of a 1969 ford galaxy 500. For a month or so. No body wonted the thing. Crank needed torned and new rings. I dumped it in the junk pile with the rest of the chevy and dodge stuff. My dad sent it off for scrap. Wish I had it for someone.Hurst

 

"Couldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass at low speed"...... That's funny! But what if you installed a cam that was made for low-midrange torque and some smaller heads with 1.94-1.60 valves and 65cc's??? I'm sure you'd think otherwise.... I'm not looking to make this motor sing @ 7500+ rpm's... More like from idle to about 6500 rpm.. Maybe some 3.55's or 3.73's out back..

 

If you're going for low speed torque, why not keep the cubic inches? Sure, you could move the powerband down in a 302, but then you have lost the only advantage it had, which was being capable of high RPM power. Might as well build a 327/350/383. In fact, I'd just go straight to the 383 in just about any large journal application. You can buy a 383 cast crank (which is all most people will ever need) for about the same price as having your stock crank machined. Same goes for buying new Eagle/Scat rods, vs. resizing old ones and putting in ARP bolts.

I have been down the de-stroke road before, and the only one that I would maybe build again was a 377 (destroked 400). It was still large enough to rev really fast, yet it had good torque, too.

 

Anybody read this one yet???.....

 

2011
Cripes man, you must have sceered everyone off.
Oh, by the way BTT.

 

Mark, I remember when your 57 was stolen. Did it ever surface? Have you heard from Myron?

 

What year and month for the Hot Rod magazine

 

I know this post started a long time ago, but I was able to pick up a sj 327 block and forged sj 283 crank pretty cheap ($100 crank $150 block) and I got a set of 283 rods w/.040+ pistons thrown in on a parts washer purchase, so I pretty much have the stuff I need. I was thinking of going with SCAT rods they seem pretty reasonably priced in the low $200 range. I'm scratching my head with what pistons I should use ?? Looking for something that would be ok with some hi-revving and capable of 400+ hp. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you in advance

 

.040" over 4" and a 3" crank isn't a 301-2 any more.

 

if your going to run the original 30/30 solid lifter cam shaft, your going to want to run a pop up piston. Are you planning on running 1.94 or 2.02 heads?


Also for some of the previous posts, as a first generation Camaro owner and researcher on originality.

All 67 and 68 blocks were 2 bolt mains. Only 69 model year cars got 4 bolt. The DZ stamping is 1969 ONLY! In 1968 they are MO blocks and in 1967 they were either MO or MP. The difference in the codes in 1967 was to designate if the car got smog equipment because LA built cars got smog and Ohio built cars didn't. Also only the 1967 blocks are small journal. The switch to large journals was in 1968 for all small blocks.

 

I love 302s..Ran F stock for a few years with a buddy of mine, 7000 rpm is child's play with a well built 302 Probably been covered on this thread but a factory 302 rated at 290 hp will actually crank out about 420 on the dyno with headers and proper jetting..

 

Here’s an interesting twist on that, if a guy built a Gas class car with a .060 over 283 he was proud to say “It’s got a 292 in it.”. But on the other hand a stock class car could be legally bored .030 over per NHRA rules and serious racers would bore them to the limit of the rules. Yet everybody running a Z-28 in stock class back in the day said it was a 302 under the hood, I doubt anybody said they had a 306.
If you build a 4”x 3” SBC and it has to be overbored because you don’t have a virgin block it is still a 301 to me.

 

67 was the ONLY year for a small journal 302, and it was a 2 bolt main block (602 Z-28 Camaro's were made with them), 1968 on, ALL sbc's were large journal (the 400 sbc is excluded from this discussion), and ALL the 302's were 4 bolt main, along with many of the 350 engines coming on board in 68. Now, there is a reason the 302 was only made for 3 years; more power, could be made more easily, with the "new" 350, they did't have to do all the warranty work on the 302, and insurance companies were starting to wise up on certain engine combinations in certain cars. The 302 Camaro's were only low 14 second cars on the drag strip in stock form. That's without open exhaust, sticky slicks, and low ratio rear end gears. We live in a different time now, we no longer have "quality gasoline" that can sustain high CR's, and our gas is really expensive by comparison, no one wants to mess around with "adjusting the valves", and who want's to insure a 1969 Z-28 Camaro?. The 302, or homebuilt 301's of the day, have gone the way of the Hydro Stick transmission, cruising the main streets of our towns/cities, having a local dragstrip, and so many other things that were once the norm. I still dabble in small CID, short stroke engines, but I also don't expect unreasonable things from them, and my machinist thinks I'm nuts! I am Butch/56sedandelivery. OH, and I just happen to have a #1178 Z-28 crankshaft and bearings, fresh, and ready to go!

 

Since I'm a Ford Man so what-the-heck-do-I-know but.......I thought the hot set-up for reving-to-the-moon shivel-laz was a 400 block with a 327 crank!?! a 377. BIG bore and short stroke . I would go with a long rod in that combo to kinda insure it stayed together good above 8 grand. (long rod and short piston means less weight hanging on the end of the rod)
Jus say'in
6sally6

 

I wasn't going to use the .040 pistons, I was thinking of using the rods possibly.

 

67 302 small journals 2bolt 68 302 large journal 2bolt famous 302 69 dz block was the same as mo except 4bolt . 302 was built for Penske and mark Donahue to compete in 1967 trans am racing series to compete with ford. The rules had a305 cubic inch limit. There also had to be more than 600 in production. There something like 602 67 z/28 Camaros made. All 67s have been accounted for except for1. It was stolen and never found. 290 hp was a a detuned engine use to set insurance rate. The combo set winning records. Brother own one in 68 that our factory rep was driving and I've restore two. If u build one gears ,headers are important depending what you want to do. And there is much better after market cams than factory choices. Cams have come a long way. The modern cams can help low end and cylinder pressure. Before picking piston call your favorite cam company tech line. They can help pick cam and pistons for what head and fuel u want to run. All solid factory 302 cams r dead until 4500. Even if advanced. If want high rpm go with small journal block and crank. If u find a large journal 3.00 crank that has bad mains ,the old setup , was to cut the large main journals to small journal and offset grind the rod journals to small journals rod. Get a little more stoke with out having to change rods or piston. Won't change piston to head clearance more than .045 most domes and piston tops can be machined close to that much. But check with manufacturers. The biggest thing on 302 is to build enough cylinder pressure but still have it breathe enough for the rpm capabilities. Huge piston domes screw up flame travel and end gasses. Small head chambers shroud valves and screw up cylinder filling. I would use hyperutectic piston with tight skirt clearance so you can run tight quench to get the a/f mixture forced to mix. Run small dome as possible with small chamber heads with valves unshrouded. Then mill the heads to get cc back down from the unshrouding process. Kind of vague, but don't what your going to do with it.

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My buddy claims he has a complete DZ 302 he paid $500 for yrs ago that I could probably get for "a song and a dance". Just sitting in his brother in-laws barn. Maybe I should take it off his hands before someone else does....

 

Double your money right here


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Sounds like my brother-in-law. He always talks about the great shit he knows about that can be bought for a song, but when I say "go" the stuff isn't available anymore.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Or never was available^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

My experience with the high revving little 302 came in the form of seeing one get beat regularly on the drag strip.
It was 1970 and I was attending high school in Moose Jaw Saskatchewan.

The local bakery shop (Dutch bakery) at the time had a son named John who worked in the bakery while attending high school.
His parents had bought him a 1968 Camaro Z28 with the 302 and the cross ram 2x4 intake and 4 speed.
In those days us kids had gotten permission to run drags out at an abandoned airstrip outside of town.

We spent days digging sod and weeds out of the cracks and cleaning up the surface to race on.

That year another local rich kid showed up with a brand new refrigerator white 1970 Dart with the small hub caps on steel wheels.
It was the 340-4 speed.

Every single time they paired up, the Dart soundly beat that Camaro.

It was not even close.

 

I have owned both a '69 DZ & a '70 Dart Swinger 340 4 speed (not at the same time) and I gotta tell ya, if both were set up with same tires, gearing, and tune my seat of the pants money would be on the DZ...................................

 

He claims he ran the numbers before he bought it but I'm not getting my hopes up untill I see it with my own eyes. As far as the "song and dance" goes, i couldn't dance if my ass was on fire, though my momma always said I could sing tenor..... Ten or twenty miles away!