Hope I’m in the right place here. First post of newly acquired 29 model a. My questions are 1/I would like to get it on the road and drive as is, original for a year. Then modify. I don’t want to spend or buy parts I can’t use in the future. So, what front and rear brakes or kits should I go with that I can still use if and when I upgrade to low horsepower v8. 2nd/ the car goes into gear but will not move. Someone mentioned rear keys in rear axles. Does that sound right? Thanks for any input. Been wanting a 29 forever and finally got one unmolested and surface rust only. Phil...
Just drive it the way it is and get hold of another chassis/frame of your choice and start spending money on that chassis and get it ready to do a body swap in 1 years time. I'm not sure about your will not move issues, wait and hear from the experts. Will roll at all out of gear? Could it be a seize brake? I assume the engine runs? Is it possible for some reason you are stuck in two gears? Is the torque tube universal broken or the drive shaft slipped down the tube and locked the diff? The more clues you give us the better chance you have of getting a workable solution...
You should start driving this thing immediately with the original mechanical brakes and see if you are comfortable in it. If you like it than there are a hundred upgrades. I would do 53 F1 Bendix up front and 39 40 rears. You need to pull the rear wheels and drums and look for the keys. It's a really simple work task and is probably your problem. It was a weak link in the Ford design. He didn't have many but this is one of the most common.
1st thing that you need to do is get your hands on both vol. #1 & vol. #2 of Les Andrews "Model A Ford Mechanic's Handbook". Vol. 1 will cover repairs and vol. 2 covers performance upgrades. After you have familiarized yourself with the fundamentals, jump right in with both feet! Model A's are not rocket science....
You'll need a hub puller to remove those rear drums. (Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.) The KR Wilson-style ones are the best, in my experience. Here's what I'm talking about: https://www.vintageprecision.com/products/hub_pullers/index.html
Mac Van Pelt rents the correct puller if you don't want to spring for a new one. If you were closer I'd lend you mine.
If it sheared the key, or its missing, you won't need a hub puller. If it's really at the point that the axle spun in the hub, it'll pull right off .
If the hubs were properly torqued you definitely need a puller. Get the good one (KR Wilson). You will risk destroying an axle if you use a hammer or a cheap puller. If however the key broke due to someone not torquing the axle nuts properly the hub may come off by hand. Try it before you chase a puller since you won't need it when you put things back together. Charlie Stephens
I disagree that the keys were a weak link. I'd say they would be better described as a fuse. Better to shear the key than twist an axle in two or break spiders. Most of these cars suffered a lot of abuse (by modern standards) during their daily use. For instance, rocking back and forth in a rutted mud hole with sticks through the spokes for jacks/traction. Henry didn't miss much, whether we can see his reasoning or not. Anyway, I'd agree, look at the axle keys first. My dad had a couple spares in his tool box under the back seat of the 29 Tudor in my avatar.
I am going to make up a story, you tell me if I am right. You started the engine, put in the clutch and shifted into gear. You let out the clutch and the engine kept running but the car didn't more. You tried all of the gears with the same result. If this is what happened the axle keys are a good place to check first. Is it correct to assume you can jack up the car and spin each wheel? Charlie Stephens
You should take several pictures and post them. If you have trouble posting pictures tell us what camera, software and computer you are using and someone will help. Charlie Stephens
Those stock As make great full fendered hot rods The juice brake upgrade would be a great improvement then ya can work on stance. Having the stock axle dropped and reversing the springs, some 16 inch wires and you gat a super traditional hot rod Post some pics
Brakes? It is difficult to tell you which way to go not knowing where you are starting. If the car was recently restored or recently had a good brake job then using the mechanical ones for a year might be a good idea. If the brakes are all worn out it would probably be better to upgrade to hydraulics. The reproduction Lincoln Bendix brakes are excellent and if you are starting with no hydraulic brake parts might be a good solution. A slightly less expensive solution would be the ’40 to ’48 Ford Lockheed designed brakes. They are not quite as good but I use them on my AVATAR and am satisfied with them. Another post suggested using the F1 brakes on front, be advised that they don’t work very well with wire wheels. Which leads to another question, what wheels are you running now and what do you plan to have when you are finished? I like either stock wire wheels or 16 inch bent spoke Kelsey’s. This might be a good time to decide what the final car is going to look like and tell us. It might be good to attend a few shows and take pictures of the cars you like and post them for comments. Charlie Stephens
If you take off the hub caps and have someone look at the axle ends when you let out the clutch, if one of the axle nuts is spinning, you found a sheared key, if neither spin, you are going to dig deeper. Sent from my Nexus 5X using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Deeper might be a broken axle. If the axle broke there is nothing to retain the wheel/drum/hub and you should be able to pull it all off by grabbing the tire. If the teeth are sheared off of the ring and/or pinion there should be metal when you drain the oil from the rear end. I am sure looking forward to hearing back from Phil. Charlie Stephens
Thank you all for so many good replies. A little about me. Always had Chevys. Recently sold my 56 big block, still have my 53 pickup, 235-old school dual carbs, split headers, Ford 9, fully bagged with accuair, fully welded boxed frame, and did it all myself. My best tan is always from welding! I drive it a lot. I’m 58. I have wanted a model a for a long time (sorry dad RIP). I am not sure how I want to go. Always wanted to chop, remove fenders, channel etc. But I’m on the fence as fenders are all good. I like that idea of getting another frame, driving as is then body swap. However, I may just use what I have. I have found some nice brake upgrades but wow the cost! Charlie, your story is spot on. Yes to all of it. When I jacked rear and tried to remove wheel, 4 lugs fell into drum. Not seated properly I would guess. Wheel had ALOT of play. Cotter pin was there but nut was loose. Can’t remove hub, almost comes off, but not quite. Can I back off pad adjust to remove? Or is puller needed. Also, previous owner must have put nuts on without the needed ressed washers as the nuts seemed to have pulled almost thru wheels. Last, if it ims those keys, I can’t seem to find explanation on how those work. I see photos, but how can two or one square bar fault everything from turning? I’m missing something... Phil....
Don’t know who built this one. I’m sure someone here does. I love chopped, fenderless hot rods but this one has it figured out There are several threads hear that address the suspension and brake mods to achieve this look. Figure out what you really want and plan from that. Changing in the middle of a build takes a lot of backtracking
Phil, There is a groove in the axle and a groove in the hub. The axle key spans these two grooves. See photos. The hub is kept from spinning on the axle by the taper. The torque spec on the axle nut is about 200 ft-lbs (look it up in the archives). Breaking the bond between the hub and the axle is why the puller is required. Sounds like you don’t need a puller. From your description it sounds like the drum is hanging up on the shoes, did you back off all of the adjustments? Be sure to buy your replacement axle nuts from a place like Roy Nacewicz Parts, (734) 654-9450, fordbolts.com. The nuts from the local hardware store are not strong enough for the required torque. There are not any recessed washers required under the lug nuts is everything is correct. Sometimes they are used if the lugholes are enlarged from being run without proper torque on the lug nuts. Another possibility is if you try to run solid rims on the mechanical brake drums. You can see that problem on this post: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/40-ford-wheels-on-a-model-a.750368/#post-8330045 This problem will frequently result in the lug nuts pulling through the rim. Charlie Stephens
Thank you Charlie, I completely get it now. Got right rear hub off and yes, key was sheared in half. Half in the axle and half in the drum. Wow what a design.orded new parts to fix. Brakes actually look great/somewhat new. Seems like a very weak link in Henry’s design. Would it be better to take new ones to a machinest and have them milled out of stainless or some other harder steel? Also, I see some hot rods run what looks like the original rear. Is there a way to beef it up?
The design was fine but it intended that the axle nut be properly torqued so the load was carried by the taper. The design is fine for the stock engine and maybe a little more. There were a lot of guys that used them behind the 265/283 SBC's in the fifties. I can't think of any way to beef the stock rear end up. One thing you can do is to lap the hub to the axle to make sure the taper seats firmly. Also keep torquing the axle nuts down until they stop moving which will probably be a hundred miles or so. Then check them again after a few more miles. Most guys go to a later banjo rear end if they need more strength and want to keep the banjo look. The later they are the wider they are plus you need to shorten the torque tube/driveshaft for all of them. Charlie Stephens
I also want to check drivers side. I’m assuming it’s ok because hub is seized. Any way to get those drums off without the puller?
I am not sure what you mean when you say "I’m assuming it’s ok because hub is seized"? The drum should be free to rotate causing the axle on the other side to turn in the opposite direction (I assume there is nothing restraining it). Can you turn the drum? Are the brakes holding it? Now to the question about getting the drum off without the puller. If the axle nut was properly torqued, the answer is no. If the nut was as loose as the first one you might get away using a cheap puller that the local auto parts store might loan you for free, or you might just be able to pull it off by hand. If you find yourself reaching for a big hammer stop and get the correct puller. Charlie Stephens
Making the keys stronger will increase the risk of breaking an axle. Carry a couple of extras if they bother you. You're likely to never need another again.
Buy a drum puller. Its something you need to own when you have early cars. I've had 2 hot rods that I put model A banjo rear ends in. They can take a lot of abuse. I used to shear keys in my model A coupe often driving like an idiot and the rear end lasted. (till it didn't haha). Keys were one of Henry's better ideas. There are work arounds to not having a drum puller in a pinch but why bother? I've accumulated a small collection of them from swap meets. This old monster is my favorite. I don't mess with the Ford specific ones that grab the snout of the drum though i do have one somewhere.
I meant that the other side drum does spin turning the axle on track rear (problem side) I meant that the drum will not pull of. So I’m assuming that key is ok, but wanted to replace anyway. Sorry to confuse!
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