Technical Frame boxing necessary?

it's moron...maroon is a color. Just sayin'

 

Little bit more to this. Bluebear was building his own car but in Coddingtons shop. Bluebear was Coddingtons nephew I believe. This was a contest, build the cars in some silly time frame and then run them down route 66 to Kansas City for some big show. Ole Bluebear wanted to build a Rat rod and was building it like that. He told Coddington that he would box it but if he did he was going to put 60 or so holes thru the frame and weld them in.

That was a really stupid part of that pretty stupid show. No way in hell you can compare boxing a model A frame to boxing a 40 Ford frame that is going to get a mild Flathead. It sure wouldn't hurt the car one bit to be boxed, and now is the time to do it, if you just fill the need to practice your welding skills.

 

If you have to ask, box.

I have never heard anyone say that they regretted boxing a frame (unless they warped it in the process).

 

By the time your car was built they were figuring the body as part of the structure, when the body and frame are bolted together they are very strong. Certainly strong enough for any flathead.

Now if you were going to put in a Hemi with 4 speed and go drag racing it might need some extra bracing but the roll cage would take care of that.

For a street driven flathead car you don't need any boxing or extra reinforcement provided the body and frame are not rusted to oblivion.

 

Urban Dictionary: maroon

Maroon
Term made famous by Bugs Bunny meaning a pushover, or one easily fooled.

A dope, fool, idiot, or nincompoop.

Unbelievably stupid person.

Might have been derived from moron: adding an extra letter "o" to moron meaning double-moron, thus a maroon.

Usually preceded by the words "what a"...

He thought he was eating chocolate ice cream but it was vanilla with chocolate syrup--what a maroon!

He thought that wax fruit was real--what a maroon!

He fell in love with a stripper again--what a maroon!

I believe that Roger Rabbit used the term also.

Now back to the boxing question...

 

^ Could the gag be that Bugs didn't realise he was saying it wrong?

 

In Minnesota where I grew up 35-48 fords have always been a cheap entryway to have a streetrod , the pattern seems to usally be a drop axle , wishbone spliting kit, parallel leaf spring kit so they can put a moden driveline in it’s a good combination with many cars exceeding 100k miles after their new build..

Unless I was throwing more than 400 hp at it and drag racing a lot ,I wouldn’t worry about it one bit... the frame is made from vanadium steel, double walled ,and a big x member in it

Boxing the frame would be like putting a 12 point cage in a stock crosley to go drag racing.. its overkill

I believe the whole blue bear thing was a reality TV stunt , Jimmy White would know, and he wanted to build a coupe like Mike Bishop/ tardel roadster, (which seems to be the hamb gold standard... hardly a rat)

I would fix the Swiss cheese though, I’m guessing it’s at the kick-up where dirt stays between both walls and rots?

 

If you do decide to box it (for some reason); remember to map out every hole you need to access to and make provision to do so.

Boxing the doubled rails can be fun as the rust between the layers (even after blasting) can contaminate
the weld and cause you grief.

Used a set of Wolfes' Model A boxing plates once; the fit was fine.

 

I'm boxing my '38. It's getting a 283 and 4 speed...but it's a cabriolet, so gets little support from the body.

 

Not necessary, if you check that frame you will find out that convertables and pickups have a .025 heavier wall thickness than the standard passenger car. Henry knew what he was doing. I have been running a 425 hp S.B. Chev with a 4 speed and a 9" rear for over 25 years in a 40 Ford 2dr sedan with a stock frame. I run it pretty hard at times and there has never been a problem. Just ask the Wizard!
'

 

I had a 1937 Ford Coupe that I had Pete Eastwood install a 9" rear-end from a '57 Ford wagon, and Pete and Jake's ladder bars. I used the original rear spring. It already had a dropped front axle and Pete and Jakes made up a kit from their parts and to split the wishbone, that P-Wood added. I dropped in a
warmed over four-bolt small block out of a GMC pickup, that was the same as a Chevy, along with a 350 Turbo trans. There was never any talk about boxing the frame, and I drove it back from Mississippi during a very cold December, going through Texas at night on their good straight section of Interstate. Wide-open spaces, wide-open throttle --- until, I was ready to slow down, without a hitch. So, to those who feel boxing is on order I can only say. " Go for it!" If you want a stiffened frame, it will certainly do that. And, if I had the faculty to do so, at the time, my ex-wife didn't call me 'Industrial Strength" for nothing. My Forty-Pickup will certainly have a boxed frame, too. Do I think it is necessary? Not really. But, racers are never satisfied with ''enough". They want 'more than enough'. And, if they get a ride that will go Two Hundred Miles Per Hour. Guess What?

 

I believe some one posted on here a while back.. In short in lieu of boxing he separated the frame pieces swapped them side for side and welded back together forming a "box"..Looked pretty neat and probably gained some torsional rigidity with only the weight of the weld added in....

 

We all have an opinion to offer you and that's a good thing. It seems like if it is an improvement then that can only be a positive. Since you had the idea to ask about it, err on the side of it being a plus.​

 

Here's a pick of the only structural issue with the frame... I have decided (based primarily on comments here) not to box the frame, but to repair the rust damage with new steel to replace the corroded areas. Any sage words of advice on doing this part?

 

Finally, finally, finally, a picture of the damage. Your options are:
(1) Unless the vehicle is already titled and registered to that particular frame, my advice is to find something better. Looked up Bryan, Texas, you live in a land of serious rust issues due to insane humidity. You may have to travel several hours North or East to find something not-so-crusty but the investment will save you time and money.
(2) The second option is to find a parts frame with a good right side rail (doubtful because that's where they all rust out, caused by condensation from the engine exhaust), the challenge then is to drill both frames apart, sandblast, repair as needed and re-assemble. I know you don't want to go through the time and effort of drilling out all those rivets, but you really don't have a choice as nobody's figured out how to weld to rust.

 

Indeed.

I can weld dust to shadows, with hope, but not rust.

 

That damage is pretty common. What we hope is that the frame is still pretty strait. The left side usually doesn't go away like the right side so we make a template off the good side, cut it out of some plate and weld a flange on the top and bottom edges re creating a frame section. Ya gotta do both the inside and outside and then you tie it all back together. It ain't Rocket Science but it is a fair bit of work and then you get back to building the project. It's really not that big of a deal.
The Wizzard

 

I can't tell you how many frames i have seen rusted in that area.I have been told that that is the spot where the tail pipe usually breaks, blows the hot air on that spot.causing sweat.I'm not So sure about that last part. Any who, i figure this is going to be about a 50/50 split for /against boxing.

 

Now that I have seen the photo of the frame, I personally think it would be a mistake in the long run to try to use that frame without radical removal of that rusted area and replacement with more new metal as related in post #47 and then box it all.
Only you know if you have the skills, shop and equipment to successfully do the job correctly. Don't know anything about the title laws in Texas myself, but if you can find a better frame and also overcome any problems concerning the title, I would do so.

 

For many reasons, foremost is my own psycho obsession with keeping things original, I want to run this original frame. Yes, it's a big PITA to redo titles in Texas, and this car has a good, clean original VIN matching title, which is important to me as well, so this one gets repaired and saved. The drivers side is clean and and I plan to use it as a mirror template for the pass side, as suggested. I've measured out the frame and it's basically square, sound and solid except for the one problem area. No evidence of being wrecked, pulled, etc.

I'm not trying to ignore sage advice, but I cannot stand scrapping a useable car because it requires work. I have the time, tools, materials and ability at my disposal, so my biggest obstacle is not being familiar enough with this particular make/model of car... But I'm getting there. Thanks for all the help, and keep it coming. I'm not afraid of criticism.

 

That is the right spirit! Time, steel, sandblasting and welding is what it takes to repair this frame. I’m sure you can do it and the frame does not have to be scrapped. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Have you talked with your DMV about changing the frame or are you just making an assumption? It used to be a simple straightforward thing to do in California (but that may have changed).

Charlie Stephens

 

That frame can be saved...brace it square and straight, cut out the bad areas (in your case, I would be removing the cross member/internal doubling plates) and replace. Not trying to hi-jack your thread, but here are some pictures of mine. My rust was on both sides, and at the top of the frame. Just for giggles, I also included a couple pictures of sectioning and flattening the front cross member to gain another 1"+ of drop.. And as stated earlier, while others say it's not necessary, I will be boxing the frame as well (because I can, and the extra strength can't hurt, especially being a cabriolet).

BTW, once I got my chassis straight (required some strategic hydraulic pushing and chains, and confirmation with string and tape measure), I tacked it to my frame table before I began cutting out the rusty sections.

Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

I should have included these photos in previous post...this was the rust I was dealing with.

 

OP, as rusty as that frame is can you even make out the title numbers on the left rail?

 

It is still not hard in CA.

A frame is a perfectly valid replacement part. Every state has a process.

 

Not too far gone. I'd repair that. Here in the UK all the paperwork is tied to the frame, so it is a good incentive to fix the number matching frame if possible. A UK enthusiast is repairing a frame quite a lot worse than that.

Mart.

 

on a ford absolutely chevy no

 

It s a big deal in Washington because it is a "major component part", it carries the V.I.N. Some of this is at the descression of the inspector, but unfortunately most of them don't know squat about old cars and don't really care. You must take the car to them for the inspection and it must look like a car. (usually at least a 2 week wait for an appointment.)
Unless you have a title to match the number on the replacement frame you will most likely have to go thru a registration only for 3 years. They will not reassign the same V.I.N. to the vehicle, even if the frame is not repairable or destroyed. If it is a new frame you will have to have the State Patrol assign an official Washington State assigned V.I.N. number and it will then be titled as an assembled car which really messes with the car insurance issue.

 

I really don't want this to come across as being a smart ass, but I feel that any further discussion concerning title laws on this thread should be confined to TX law, as these laws vary so much that all they do is use up bandwidth.
Plus the OP has made it quite clear he is uninterested in replacing the frame.