Hot Rods Should I adjust steering box?

Yeah, been a while, How are ya John?

 

Toe is critical to having a good steering wheel return. Mine had an okay return, it wasn't until I had it up on the alignment rack I discovered my toe was 1" out. Now it comes back great. You also have to ferret out a steering box bind and any other bind between components.

 

Still raining in my area so unable to road test..I am going to check the toe again this evening. I had it originally set at 1/8 in...When I got the car it had a horrible death wobble among all it's other problems so bad that I thought the front wheels were coming off of it even below 20 mph...I added a steering stabilizer and set the toe and it seemed to take care of it..Even with hooking the adjuster back up to the sector I still have no tight spot in the center or anyplace else in the rotation for that matter...It has approx 6-8 remaining threads sticking out of the cover on the adjuster.I had to use a slotted driver bit for a drill with a quarter inch wrench attached to be able to turn the adjuster since it's so close to the engine block..The box probably needs overhauled or replaced....I worked for a tire auto repair Co for 22 years...I could have them align the car..But I would have to trailer it there from my house...When I set the toe on it myself ..I used the inside grooves on the straight tread tires for the reference points...Is there a preferred/better home way to do this?

 

when we set race car toe we sprayed a paint stripe onto tire while jacked up then take a sharp pointed screwdriver (ground to a point)old screwdriver then using a milk crate or jackstand hold it near to tread center just touching then have someone turn wheel.I say just touching because if tire is lumpy and you are holding to tight it will catch on high spot and tear the tool out of your hand.put on ground roll back and forth while bouncing to take any bind out.as to 1'' play if you had manual it would surprise you what factory play was allowed.we hve become spoiled by modern R/P steering.others have said same about the play.my 54 calls for 1-2'' free play I have 1 1/2 after rebuilding and it goes down the road like my OT burban if on country roads with a lot of crown then I have to keep it corrected no different than the daily.as other said to adjust box disconnect from link only way to do it right.other wise it will influence feel

 

Similar technique here: use something to support your hand near the tire while you hold a piece of chalk, or welders marking stick, to the tire while slowly spinning it. Location isn't important but I usually mark near the center. I also use a piece of 1x2 with an L attached to one end. Hold that against one tire, use a framing square to locate the other tire's mark and mark the 1x2. do this front and back. the 2 marks on the 1x2 is your toe, in or out.

 

Haven't tried it myself but there's some webpages and YT videos revolving around using a set of four jackstands and carpenters string stretched tight, set alongside the rear wheels to the front tires etc. Looks pretty simple to me. If you're careful I doubt the toe could be improved upon much even with modern equipment.

 

Longacre makes a handy set of plates for setting toe in/out. They could be duplicated at home fairly easily.

 

An old 'genius' friend in Santa Clara told me he'd set his '17 Dodge bucket at 1/4" TOE-IN.
Dodge bucket was neat: Original '17 frame, mostly boxed, '37 Ford V8 60 tube front, transverse leaf, bulldog perch. Clean and solid, Ford wishbone on center ball at center crossmember. 103" wheelbase.
354 Chrysler hemi, '37 Packard box. Fast.
You could SHAVE off the side wear on the front tires!
I asked him how he set the toe...(you could SEE the fronts practically looking at each other.)
He said "From the backing plates!" I told him where to measure from.
He said 'only an idiot would measure from rubber'...
I watched as he fairly 'skidded away'.
Somebody at the Firestone store set him straight, finally. But he wouldn't believe tires could be measured from their rubber composition.

 

Going to have to figure something else out or haul the car (don’t want to drive it on interstate yet) to the tire shop for alignment. Rechecked the toe this evening measured from inside of first grove on each tire 1/8 toed in. Scribed a line around the center of both front tires took a second measurement 1/4 toed out. Rotated each tire to another position and measurents changed again. I do know how to read a ruller if nothing else. Tires 6.95-14 US Royal repops. (Front).

 

Set up a pointer on the floor next to your wheels and check the runout. You know, jack it up and rotate your wheel and see what you have there.

 

if you try again bounce the car front to take bind out from jacking hard to explain.also roll back and forth while bouncing.or just trailer it every where

 

I am making a set of toe guide bars today out of angle iron...That's the problem with this car I believe it was trailered everywhere before I got it...

 

With the front end raised just slightly using a floor jack under the axle, use a plumb bob to make marks on the floor from the scribed lines on your tires. Get the tires as close to zero toe as possible. Then dial in just a touch of toe-in and go drive the car. If it drives good and doesn't "hunt", monitor the tires for "feathering" after driving it for a hundred miles or so. You can feel the feathers long before you can see them by sliding your hand across the tread. If the feathers are to the inside you've got too much to-in. Adjust slightly and drive it some more. You'll know it's right when the feathers disappear and the car doesn't hunt. This is the old school way. Good luck.

 

Toe is currently at 3/16 in. Using angle iron against both tires on a level block .Is this too much? I know 1/8 is preferable. Could that amount be adding to the issues I have described? Thanks everyone who have taken the time to help

 

Eric, can you post a pic of your angle iron setup? I wish I could give you an answer on the 3/16 vs 1/8, but personally I would set it at 1/8th inch and see what it drives like.

 

These were held tightly against the tires and measured as close to the tire as I could.Set at 1/8 in. Once I get the rest of the issues sorted out. I am going to take it to the shop for an alignment if nothing else to get a print out of all the actual measurements. Thanks again everyone for the info and help. Funny thing I was contacted the other day with who seemed to be an attorney working on cases against the builders of this car and others . I want nothing to do with those people ever again. I do hope they get what is coming to them. But karma never seems to get them all. Here is a nice head picture that I paid extra for that was supposed completely redone and ready to go. Except for they were cracked welded and leaking

 

I'm a little apprehensive about using bars or plates against the sidewall to measure from. Ever seen bulges in your sidewalls? Yep.

I do as mentioned before, spin the wheels and mark a line on the middle of the tread. Or if there is a gap in the middle, use a close-by solid strip of tread. A marker or a sharp pencil works fine, no need to paint the tire.

For measuring this I do use an old gauge I bought at a swap meet. It's a long bar with pointers at the ends that stick up about 10 inches. One side is adjustable to measure the differences between front and back of tire at the centerline of the wheel.

 

the paint makes it easier on old eyes 3/16 is to much you also never mentioned out or in we can assume out but would help knowing for sure.the time you have spent here you could have towed it to shop and be driving it

 

It was 3/16 toed in measured on the tires and the same measured on the bars..It's now 1/8 toed in.

 

it would feel more stable if out as in will feel twitchy but if you are happy.I would still have someone look at box

 

So much rain here I have been unable to drive it..The box is most definitely worn out..I am unsure until I get it off the car on how it was mounted there are no bolt heads showing on the outside of the frame rail..A rebuild or replacement will be needed..It was dry other than some old grease and after the adjustment there is still no tight spot anywhere in it's rotation from lock to lock. There is no in or outward play in the sector shaft..Considering buying a rebuilt one or good to use as is box and then shortening the shaft

 

I've bought over a dozen of those boxes and never found one that's ready to use as-is. They all need at least a few parts replaced.

 

I didn't have much hope in getting one that was used...Thought perhaps a chance maybe someone had done a rebuild and then changed plans for another steering option..I do have everything cleaned painted and ready to install for the new axle housing and ladder bar set up..

 

Since you think your housing and shaft are modified, I would contact NealinCA and see if he could rebuild your current box. Cost wise I bet it would be money well spent.

 

I will try to contact him..Thanks!

 

Drove the coupe this evening. Tightening up the box and perhaps changing the toe in helped drivability a lot although not as good as I would like it.Its much better . I still think the box needs a rebuild. Sorry I am not familiar with people in the hobby. Does Neil in Ca have a website? Thanks

 

You can also wrap a piece of masking tape around the tire for a smooth surface to mark the center line.

Toe boards are accurate and easy to use and make. You need two pieces of unwarped plywood, particle board or OSB about 26"/27" long and about 10" tall. Cut a 2" slot, wide enough for your tape to slide into, in each 10" end a couple of inches up from from the long side. After checking runout and placing the high spot either top or bottom, with the car on the ground lean the boards against the tires with slots closest to the ground. Use your wife or some heavy object (not wife) to hold one of the boards tight to one tire. As you hold the other board against the other tire pull the tape tight in the slots and read the measurement where it passes through your board.

One question. I looked at some pictures of F-1 steering boxes and couldn't tell. Do they have an end play or preload adjustment on the worm shaft?

 

NealinCA is his name on the HAMB. Send him a PM.

 

I can't stress enuf how much better my '53 Chevy PU handled when I replaced bias tires with radials. Bias followed every groove on the highway and sounds like it handled like yours. Once I put on the radials, had a jet-smooth ride.

 

For the future..................you can put a piece of duct tape on the left front tire at 9 o clock with a sharpie dot on it and measure to a similar mark on a piece of tape that's at 3 o clock on the right front tire. Then turn each tire 180 and measure again to see the difference (toe). I hope I fucking explained that correctly. LOL