Technical Bump steer? But not really. Truck feels.......weird

The 58 had some serious problems. I bought it with the drop axle in it. It handled like a 58 I beam would. But one of the passenger leafs was busted and there was a hodge podge of shims and spacers under the springs.
I decided to fix the springs and told the spring sho to reverse the eyes. The old man said reversing eyes is hard on the main leaf and to de arc them instead.
I questioned whether this would affect ride, but he insisted the spring doesn't care what shape it is, it will have the same rate.
He's been doing this longer than I've been alive. I decided to rebuild everything except the steering box. New kingins, bearings, rod ends, drag link, bushings.
After assembly, the truck looks perfect.
It rides like warmed over shit.
Below is the result. Next post is the scenario so you guys can help me out.


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How about a better definition of "warmed over @#$%).

Charlie Stephens

 

Warmed over shit is pretty vague man.

What’d you have for lunch?

Lol what’s it doing? What speed is it doing it. Come on let’s here some details

 

Is the axle hitting the bump stops?

 

I went round & round adding another leaf to an old pack. I drove it that way for awhile. I then bought a new set from Posies. No improvement. I modified a set of front load leveler Monroe shocks that had a spring wrapped around them & that helped. I ended up installing a set of Durant tapered leaf springs & that does make a difference. I now need to add some super heavy duty shocks to dampen those springs.

 

The truck is hard to steer. A large whoop in the road and it gets squirrely.
It did not do this before the rebuild. I noticed distinct sticky spots when pushing the wheels back and forth on jackstands. If I remove the pitman arm, this goes away and the wheels turn nice and smooth with zero slop.
So, the box has flat spots and needs a rebuild.
While driving, the truck wants to pull right. But not always. I have to hold the wheel left, but sometimes I can feel the tension go away and it tracks fine.
If I push up on the frame, the pitman arm doesn't move, but if I wiggle the steering wheel side to side, it makes the truck rock side to side.
I am thinking......
A) the new suspension and steering no longer soaks up road issues, and the old box is the weak link.
B) the de arced springs have screwed up steering geometry (which doesn't make sense to me)
C) the old drag link may have been bent to compensate for the drop axle, the new one is a stock replacement.
D) the new replacement shocks aren't up to the task. (Unlikely)
E) I'm totally missing something.

Pics below. This thing is not fun to drive. What a handful

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What's with the tie rod arms? Bolt on? The steering arm would be better if you could lower it some.

 

Lets see a better pic of the dropped tie rod ends? u-bolts good and tight? lotsa torque at the axle when braking with the big drop....negative caster when you brake if bolts are loose. I'd tend to that steering box also. too tight, wheel will not return to center, no fun to drive.

 

Yeah that sounds like you need to rebuild your steering box

 

Steering arm (U shape) needs to be bent down to level out your drag link. You have bump steer. Also rebuild steering box as said.

 

I considered the steering arm. I assumed it would have been dropped when the axle was put in, but it looks way up there. The pic shows how cocked the stock drag link is.

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It does not want to return to center, sometimes. When nacked up, I can get the steering box shaft to deflect up and down by turning the tires by hand.

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Be careful if you lower the steering arm because when the steering arm swings in an arc during a turn, the drag link will get closer to the axle. Dropping the steering arm will bring the drag link closer sooner because of the slope of the axle beam in that area.

Ray

 

I just relocated the front shocks on '37 to soften them. I went from straight up and down to leaning about 20 degrees forward, just that little bit made a difference. I pulled this off this site, it will show you how much difference the angle makes. Might save you buying more shocks.

 

I looked at the pics again. The steering arm is way up there. I assumed someone would have bent it down when they put in the drop axle. But I have no idea if that occurred.
I also ASSUME it's a drop axle because it has the rod end drops installed.
I can't see a reason for that without the drop axle.

I suppose I didn't notice it before the springs were dropped?
Or the old links were so sloppy that they soaked it up?

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But I would need them stiffer. They're about 30 degrees stock? Or so

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You guys are fast, BTW.
I'm now leaning toward the arm.
But I can't figure why the problem wouldn't have previously been there before the spring drop.
Unless the drag link was modified somehow and I didn't notice.

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You're faster than I culd type the explanatory post. Fingers of fury!

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I was in mid type of the scenario post when you guys beat me to punch.


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Doesnt seem to. Maybe on a real hard bump.
All in all the springs seems to suspend it ok.

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Steering shaft moving in and out would be slop in worm gear bearings, should have zero play. Would bind and act weird, especially if someone tried to adjust out slop on the sector. Not returning to center after turns or wandering when going straight is usually lack of caster, need to check with an angle finder and can be corrected with wedge spacers. Could also have bumpsteer issues with drag link going uphill too but other issues may be the biggest problem?

 

I'll go over a few things.
Before you rebuild the steering box, try properly adjusting it.
There is a "Tight" spot when the box is centered. when you turn just off of center in either direction the box will move more freely. You should adjust the sector shaft with the box centered ( when centering the box, remove the drag link) You might need an adjustable drag link so that when the truck is going straight the box is on center, that is very important.
Check the caster. Changing the springs may have affected the caster.
The big thing that has me puzzled, your truck looks like it has Chevy spindles.
If it has Chevy spindles, that can be another source of issues.
Ford spindles have a much better kingpin inclination than Chevy's.
Can you confirm that it has Ford spindles ?
Your drop tie rod set up looks a little sketchy too.

 

By de arching the springs you increased the angle of the drag link even more.
You may have to bend the arm inward to clear the axle as it bends down, try to get it level as possible.
Rebuilding the steering box is fairly easy also.

 

I was trying to source the parts and could only find seals.
I can't believe I never noticed that steering arm!
It's blatant in that picture.
But, it was on stands with suspension decompressed, so it may have looked ok

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I can only confirm the spindles in that they look exactly like my old 58 and all the new ford components fit them.
I did consider the adjustable drag link as a necessity after the arm bend.
I also did attempt a box adjustment per the factory ford manual, but my locknut nut des not want to budge from the screw.

I am also curious about the rod drops. I have always thought those thigs were chinsy, but a million threads on here claim they're fine, and a bunch of drop axle suppliers sell them, as well.
They've been around for years.

That steering arm is definitely the culprit. That's what ya get for trusting previous owners, I suppose.

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Jumping up and down on the frame, the steering wheel does not seem to move.
But, moving the steering wheel pitches the whole truck side to side.
I have not experienced this type of bump steer before, but seeing how the arc of the steering arm would travel on a different rotational plane than the spindle, this makes perfect sense for how it feels when driving.
A straight bump is fine, but it's the uneven and chopped roads that get this thing pitching.

I'll get it fixed as soon as possible and report back.

HAMBERS are the best kept secret geniuses in the world.

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Look at your photos again! or maybe it is camera angle. But it is highly unlikely to be mechanical bump steer.
If you draw a cross on the centres of the ball joints [the true pivot centres] and the centre of the rear spring eye they look like they line up.
Use a string line to confirm this.

Pete Eastwood started a thread about cowl steering that will explain this [basically the rear 1/2 of a leaf spring arcs in a similar manner to a wishbone]

I would start with "toe" corrections first [being cheap to do]
Check your camber and set the toe accordingly ! meaning: if you have pos+ camber you need toe-in and if you have neg- camber you need toe-out

 

I agree with that, but the pivot centers will always line up because the pitman and spring eye are unchanging in their relationship.
The steering arm seems to be at an angle which would cause it's rotational plane to be different from the spindles, no?

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When I've encountered that side to side movement, it seemed to be because of one of two things: Caster way off or wheels that don't match the kingpin inclination.
In an ideal setup the center line of the kingpin would meet the ground in the center of the tire. If it doesn't, the tire will be forced to roll forward/backward when it the steered when stopped. That will move the truck.

Similarly, the point where the line meets the ground relative to the center of the tire is changed by caster. It will move forward or back with neg or pos caster. This can also cause a movement if caster is extreme in either direction.

 

My first thought was caster. But it did not do this before the suspension rebuild.
The only thing that changed was the spring de arcing.
I can't imagine that would change it that drastically. But, in truth, I didn't measure caster at all. It may need shims under the springs.
I'll have to check.
I set it for 1/8 toe in. Then set it for 0 toe to see if it changed. Nothing changed.

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