Projects Up in the air 51 Buick

Hey everyone, long time lurker here. Finally got me a project of my own after working on everyone else’s cool cars for so long, I figured it was time.....plus my wife finally said yes lol. I’m a little hesitant to post this because I don’t have the car yet. But we have made the deal and I’m just waiting on them to get the title in there hands. They misplaced it so had to file for a lost title. But they proved it was in there name and I trust him so should be fine. Suppose to have it in a week.
As far as plans, well as the title states....they are up in the air a bit. I know I want to shave the handles, re wire it, lower it, update the brakes and put a sweet interior in it. I also want to get rid of the torque tube and tranny. So for sure, new rear end and I want a 700rr4 tranny. I kind dig the paint the way it is, I’m not sure if it’s patina. But it might look good with a satin clear on it. But it would look good shiny too. So that’s to be determined. Can’t afford paint right now though, so if it’s shiny paint I go with then it will be a ways down the road. Then here’s what’s going to make the purist mad....but let me explain....My dad loves these cars and he’s passed away years ago. I’m building this the way I know he would. Before he died we started building a 63 Impala, I lost the car in a house fire. The only thing I could save was the 383 that we built up for it. So that’s what’s going in the Buick...sorry, I know a nailhead or the s8 would be cool. But, I want a piece of my dad in the car with me. Now whether I should just put the 383 in the stock frame or subframe it, that I haven’t decided.
As far as the condition of car, it’s pretty solid except the floors. Front window is cracked. But most everything is there and solid. Looking forward to tearing in to it. So here it is. Tell me what you guys think!

 

Well, this isn’t the place to ask about clips or sub frames. I’ve got nothing against them, or sbc 383’s. I’ve got an OT car with both. But OT here.

Did you build that motor to haul that kind of weight around, or more of a race motor for a lighter car? The 700 will help.

I’d rebuild the stock suspension, look at lowering springs and blocks, Buick’s have plenty of options for really good drum brakes, and clean it up.

I respect your thoughts of your father, mine taught me most of what I know. I miss him every time I pick up a wrench. But you need to be real too.

 

The motor has plenty of torque to move that big Buick around. I guarantee it makes a good deal more than the straight 8. As far as the clip goes, I may very well rebuild the stock suspension. That’s why I’m here to get advice. One of the reasons for wanting the clip is power steering and more than that, a different column. Love the stock wheel and column, but I’m a big guy and a shorter tilt column would give me more room. Wasn’t sure if it was possible to shorten the stock column a few inches.

 

Being a true blue Buick guy I say any Buick that is saved and put back on the road is a big score for the hobby and the American way of life. Just be aware of just how much work and fabrication you are taking on with a driveline swap, especially doing away with the closed drive set up. I have seen and heard of way too many torque tube car projects getting scrapped. I don't know your fabrication skills, shop equipment etc. but it is no easy job. All that said I wish you well and look forward to seeing you make that old Roadmaster live again!!

 

Nice score.I always liked that year Buick.Good luck with her and please keep us posted on your progress.Thanks Bruce.

 

I'm going to get a little nosey. My comments are not based on the car as I really could care less, it's about the guy that builds them. The guys that build them, their success, their happiness is what I care about.

Really, really think about this one. Ask yourself the following....
Why this car?
Have you had a lifelong desire for a 1951 Buick 4 door?
Is this car a substitute for say a 62-63 Impala?
Are you prepared to go all out on this one, meaning.....a lot of money....more than you can imagine, or an incredible length of time?
Is this car structurally sound? If not what's required to make it so?
Do you have the place to work on this car?
Do you have the tools?
Do you want to build? .....
Or Ride?!!
Do s this car fit you?
I'm a pretty big fellow 6'1" 275.... I have never had a problem with fitting in an American car. Yeah, things are close....the bottom of the wheel is close to the thighs but there has always been plenty of room there....at least for me. The interior set up was designed for a close fit but comfortable. With that said if it does not fit you.....it does not fit.
Changing columns....steering wheel and front steering and suspension modifications opens Pandora's box of modifications that snowball. If you are OK with the original type suspensions.....maybe you need to find a car that fits better.

I'll be honest.....if a 51 Buick does not fit....what will?
I really think it's more of a perception of fit rather than true functional fit. You sit and ride differently in a Early 50s car compared to what's here in 2018. All I'm saying is really sit in it. Get behind that big wheel....it's going to be close but it may fit you better than you think.
If not....maybe you need to try a different model.

Is this going to be a Custom or a Hot Rod?
What are this car's attributes?......

In my opinion this car has good chrome that will clean up to driver quality. With a lot of elbow grease and TLC could bring back the shine on what's left of the paint.

This has been too long....I'll cut it short.

Honestly I think you would be much much happier with a 61-64 Chevrolet Impala, Bel Air or Biscayne.

When it's all said and done the Chevy build would be cheaper with less headaches, modifications and money.

 

Yes I’ve always loved these cars. No it’s not a substitute for an impala, if I wanted another impala I would have got one. I actually own John Wayne Customs, we do upholstery for custom cars. So yes tools and a place to work. As far as how much money I want to spend...well of course not more than I need to. But I’m not planning on restoring this to the T or make a riddler award street rod out of it either. I am gonna replace all the weatherstripping and glass and I know that’s gonna hurt. But, I know I can build this into a car I love without spending 20 grand on it. Hell I already love it just the way it sits. As far as changing columns, that was only if I went with a different front clip, which I’m leaning against. I’ll make the interior comfortable to me one way or the other, that’s what I do. I’m about your size, I probably have about 20 pounds or so on you. Yes it’s a pretty solid car except the floors. So that’s the first thing I’ll do. As far as a hot rod or custom....well a little of both. The 383 is a pretty stout motor, I may actually need to de tune it a little. I think it was putting out just under 500hp 440 tourque. Really more than the Buick needs. But it will have a few custom touches to it as well. But don’t you worry.....I’m sure I’m gonna love this girl!

 

Hello fellow '51 Roadmaster owner, welcome to the fraternity.

First and foremost, this is just my 2 cents -
- The entire rear suspension is based around the torque tube. The whole rear end will have to be converted and beefed up from scratch. A conversion can be done, but it is going to take a lot of work/fun-gineering and $. Again, Buick designed the car around the torque tube - changing the drive system goes way outside the original design parameters, just keep in mind with a beefed up motor and tranny, you may be putting streeses and strains on a frame that was not designed for it, and that may have unexpected consequences.
- If you are going to keep the side tilting hood, check your hinges. Look up my post on '51/'52 Buick hood hinges. These hoods can fly off unexpectedly...ask me how I know.
- Just a heads up that a lot of the trim/sheetmetal are specific to the Roadmaster. Parts from the Super/Special don't fit. Neither will certain parts from a '52 Roadmaster.
- Please don't toss away anything you strip off ( the knee shocks, trim, ect.). '51 Roadmasters are a not a dime a dozen, parts are not cheap and we all seem to have a spare parts stash. Save whatever you take off for trade fodder, or better yet ship them to me

Good luck, have fun!

'51 Roadmaster.

 

I was worried about that on the hood. I will check that out, thanks you! I won’t throw anything away either.

 

At first when I read your title, I thought maybe we'd see a '51 Buick gasser...which I suppose would be interesting but glad it's not...lol.

A Roadmaster no less. Looks pretty solid. You'll sure know you're driving a real American car. I had a stock '51 Roadmaster Riviera 2dr hardtop. My wife said she felt like "the classiest broad around" when we'd take it out. Love the swoopy lines, the massive smooth "lippy"-looking bumpers, the toothy waterfall grille, the beautiful curve of the side trim and the similar curve of the rear side glass and inner stainless trim. My rear side glass pivoted instead of rolling straight up and down...not sure if a 4dr does the same.

I would encourage you to keep most of the trim...including the outer door handles. The trim does so much in making a Buick what it is. I can see simply smoothing the deck...maybe a nose job...remove the antenna...but keep most of it.

Glad to hear that you have the capabilities to deal with the necessary suspension change, etc. That 383 will be the perfect SBC for this car. It's gonna be cool...a big beautiful Buick with some UMPH!

Keep the interior and all the styling classic...timeless...no modern junk now...lol.

Good luck!

 

Mr. Leno did something similar with a '48. Not my style, but it turned out nicely -

 

I’m keeping the majority of the trim. I don’t want to shave the handles, the trunk emblem, maybe hood emblem and antenna. Although on the doors I’m not sure what to do yet. The handles are in the trim of the belt line and I really don’t want to get rid of that belt line trim. I know I could use some off a different model that was thinner. I wish I had the skills to weld up the hole in the trim from the handles and make it look like factory but....you gotta know your limitations lol

 

As a fellow Buick owner, I can dig it! I had a few times of almost buying 50s buicks before buying my 37. I believe the Roadmaster had power steering option starting in '52 or '53, so maybe adapting over the power steering box to your 51 could be an option without having to slice up the frame, although I am not sure if the rest of the steering set up is compatible, but anything can be made to work. Does the car run now? The way those cars were set up, they were pretty effortless to drive, I would be inclined to see if just freshening up the stock steering did the trick and keep it simple and cheap!

As far as the steering wheel being a bit close, as a bigger guy I can appreciate that, have you thought about just repositioning the mounting points for the front seats without infringing on someone sitting in the backseat too much? Theres no way I will comfortably fit in my buick in the factory seating position, but I have a coupe so it doesn't really matter since there wont be a back seat.
Some good buick parts sites
http://bobsautomobilia.com/

https://www.ebay.com/sch/annbuickpts/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

http://www.fusickautomotiveproducts.com/departments.asp?dept=580

 

Good project, looks complete which will save a lot of time not having to hunt down small bits.

The fact that own an upholstery shop should let you trade some work. Theres a lot more painters than upholsterers.

Cant tell of thats chalky brown paint or surface rust, but it doesnt look like theres much paint there to save. Suggestion would be to get it all derusted, media blast and in epoxy primer, tinted if you prefer, as you do the body mods, cut the primer back in.

If you want to derust, CLR or evaporust may help, slowly derust each panel and keep it wiped with linseed oil or gibbs oil.

Keep the updates coming, 383 700R4 will make a good driver.

 

Ok, so I have decided not to clip it. I’m going to rebuild the stock suspension, lower it and put disk brakes on it. What I can’t decide now is how to lower it and how low. My choices are dropped uprights or lowering springs or both. No heated or cut coils for me. So both would give me a 5 inch drop. 3 for the springs and 2 for the uprights. Is that too much of a drop for these cars. I still would like a decent ride and this car will regularly have 4 people in it, so I want to take that into consideration. Rear suspension is going to be a truck arm suspension or a 4 link...still not sure.
Next concern is the disk brakes, wilwood makes a nice kit for these cars. Or I can do the Scarebird kit that would probably be at least 200$ cheaper. I am running a dual 1 1/8 bore master cylinder as well.
Also on the front end, are there components that routinely go bad on these over the years. Should I just spend the 500$ and buy the master rebuild kit from Kanter? Or just piece it together. In case I haven’t said it yet, thank you all so much for your help and expertise

 

The $500 kit from Kanter is a good option if you are going to keep it stock. The Roadmaster is all about the smooth ride - there are plenty of rubber pieces in between parts to dampen road noise that are now approaching 70 years old. Go through the whole thing and you will have piece of mind that it is done right. You should probably change all the grease zircs while you are under there as well. The front end knee shocks were really well designed - they either work or they don't. Check the fluid level, push down hard on the fender and if the car returns to sitting reasonably level, you are OK. If winds up dipping to one corner.....well you know you have a problem. Cars LLC sells rebuit knee shocks with a core exchange should you choose to go that route.

 

Here is a thought if you shave the handles you are not going to match that paint so I would save that little bit if customary for when I could afford to paint it. Where it mine I would probably do something with the port holes while I was at it. For the time being were it mine I would see to he mechanicals and wax the living bejesus out of it.

There is noting in the world wrong with putting the stroker in the Buick. Someone will get their panties in a bunch but in my world they could just take an aeronautical inter course at a tumbling piece of pastry. If course I did own a hotrod/mild custom '46 Ford with a cad motor in it so I am not a good person to ask. The stock Buick frame will work just fine with the swap no reason to re-invent the wheel on that old heap.

Do Not toss those old Buick brakes when you "upgrade" the brakes. Put 'em in a box and send 'em to me. I'll use 'em to "upgrade " the brakes on someone else's old hooptie.

 

You "can't afford paint" but you plan to gut that car like a trout and replace everything but the ash trays. What am I missing. No doubt you plan to change it to 12 volts too. Do you have any idea what all that costs? Are you planning to do the work yourself or hire it done? If you plan to do it yourself what kind of shop and tools do you have, and how many similar projects have you done?

If you want a car with V8 engine, auto trans, open driveshaft, 12v electrics etc etc etc why don't you just buy one? A Chev hardtop from the sixties would be way better for your purpose than that thing.

I'm not trying to harsh your buzz. But, you will be much better off figuring these things out now, than a year from now when you have wasted untold time and $$$$$ bucks.

To me there are really 3 choices 1) take the car to a well established hot rod shop and write them a check for $50,000. You can pay the balance a year from now when it is done 2) Leave the car stock and fix what is there 3) Buy a better car. It doesn't matter what it costs, you will be time and money ahead.

 

LOL in '10 we did a Roadmaster hardtop a '51 as I recall ( I would have to dig out a note book to be certain). The LS and 4L60 was the cheapest investment on the build. It was a gutted heap so that saved us some time and just cost on the build before labor was 40K. But it is one beautiful old boat of a late model car.

I got nuthin against a full build on a car so don't misunderstand (@Rusty O'Toole doesn't but someone else will) but simple is the way to go. If you got something and it already is working use it. If the cost to rebuild is way past the cost of replacing, buy it. Then drive the living excrement out of it and enjoy it.

 

That’s why I can’t afford paint...because yes I know how much all this is going to cost. Yes I plan on doing most of the work myself. Some of you guys seem to think just because we someone asks questions and opinions, that means we they don’t have a clue what they are doing. . I assure you I’m quite capable of building this car. Yes I have a shop....yes I have tools....I think I’ve already explained this.
Also...I don’t want a car with a v8, auto trans, open rear end and 12 volts.....I want a 51 Buick with all that, so I’m gonna build it! I don’t care for any of your three options rusty and I bought a good car thank you very much. Why would I buy a running driving pristine car....just to completely re do it, that’s just dumb! But don’t worry your not harshin my buzz. I’m open to suggestions that’s why I’m here and I will take those suggestions into consideration. I do value you alls opinions....some more than others. But in the end, I will build this exactly the way I want to. It. I’m not one bit scared to make it my own.” Porkn I’m not sure about the handles yet, but that’s down the line a ways regardless, so we will see.

 

As long as you know what you are letting yourself in for. Being more than 1000 miles away I don't know about your shop experience etc but we often get newbies with big dreams who end up in a mess, I would like to save someone the grief if possible.

Porknbeaner has actually done a similar car so listen to him not me. He can probably save you some time and money, he made the mistakes so you don't have to lol.

I'm wondering if it might be easiest to buy a late model rwd Roadmaster and transplant the whole chassis. Leave the floor pan and firewall on the chassis and you can even keep the air conditioning.

 

Go for it, a stock'ish but freshened up steering and front suspension, lowered a bit with a memento 383 in a Roadmaster should make for fun ride! without seeing too many detail pictures of it, looks realtively solid, and if you were already planning on rewiring it, getting a new rear and trans, and you already have a "done" engine, I don't see too many surprise costs in it for you if you keep it simple. Your goals seem pretty realistic for it. Is there an engine in there already? looks fairly low from the pictures but could be the angles.

 

Yes the whole drivetrain is still there and the motor isn’t froze up either.

 

Personally, I would hold off on deciding on how much your lowering it until you get the SBC in there if the straight 8 is still in there. Roadmaster should have the 320, and those things weigh over 800lbs and the weight difference could change things a bit, might free up a little space though!
a 327 compared to my 320

 

My choice would be to keep the original engine and power train etc but to each his own.

 

That’s a good idea stooge! Wow that’s a big difference lol

 

Re the front end. Do you know how to check for wear? Lift the car up so you can get underneath and the front wheels are off the ground. Have 1 guy slide an 8 foot 2X4 under the tire, lift up and down and pry from side to side. While the other guy looks at the front end parts, looking for movement. Any movement or play means wear. Most of the joints are steel pins and brass bushings not rubber.

Then have your helper move the steering wheel back and forth while you look for looseness in the steering joints. Don't forget the idler arm pivot. There is a certain amount of play in the steering anyway, you could move the wheel about 4 inches from side to side without anything happening when the car was new. When you watch old black and white movies and there is a car scene with the driver sawing the wheel from side to side that is not hammy over acting. That is what they were like to steer. In practice it's not a problem and you don't even notice it as long as you don't expect sports car handling.

If the front end is reasonably tight the next thing is the lever action shocks. They have a cap on top that you can unscrew, and fill them with knee action fluid or shock absorber oil. This stuff has not been available for years, now we use hydraulic jack oil. Clean off the dirt before you take the cap off, you don't want dirt in your shocks.

Buicks were known for a soft wallowy ride. For this reason I would think of adding a set of modern tubular shocks if you can figure out a way to mount them.

Make sure the front end is up to spec and get an alignment. You shouldn't need power steering if everything is right and you use bias ply tires, or narrow radials pumped up to 32PSI. Try it with the stock steering. The Buick was a favorite of big successful guys, you may find you have all the room you need.

 

Thanks rusty! I will definitely do that!

 

If You decide to use the Chevy V8 and convert the driveline into an "open" type, please share Your progress. I for one would like to see how it´s done. Beautiful car, BTW. Good Luck.

 

Will do, I’m definitely doing the v8.