Hey guys, I’m rebuilding an 8BA for a model a coupe. This is my first flathead build. Everything is back from the machine shop (one that specializes in flatheads) and I have almost most of my parts. Eagle 4” crank, Scat rods, Ross pistons, Isky cam and Offenhauser heads. The car is not meant to be a race car with the exception of perhaps a TROG type race. …and I have a few questions. 1. Are ARP headstuds needed for my applications? ARP stud kit = $502.99, Offenhauser stud kit = $114.99 2. Should I even bother with my stock water pumps (unknown condition) This is a Cheap vs. Stupid kinda question. 3. And an opinion questions. I want to go stainless for the other engine hardware. Hex head bolts or Alan? Thanks!, Carl
1. You don't need those high dollar studs. Use bolts. You'll be glad you did when you have to remove a head. 2. Use the stock pumps and change them only if you have to. Spend your money on a good radiator. 3. The only stainless bolt you need is the one inside each water pump inlet. Use anti-seize. Stainless has a tendency to gaul and is softer than regular steel bolts. If you want shiney bolts buy them from Garner-Wescott or use acorn covers. I had a 296 stroker flatty years ago with Offy heads and used the stock Ford headbolts. They worked fine. Call the folks at Shadow Rods or H and H and ask what they use. Don't forget to dress up your engine with this coil bracket support. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...il-bracket-support-new-reduced-price.1022200/ Also, ask your question on Fordbarn also. Good luck with your project.
I didn't use bolts, but I hear they are a good idea. I remember trying to remove the Offy heads off of the flathead that was in m y coupe. The studs were very difficult to remove and the heads had fused to them in some holes. I ended up having to remove the crank and pistons before I could use a 2x4 and large hammer to persuade the head off of one stud. That being said I used studs I bought from Speedway for my engine build I coated them with never seize when I installed them. A note of caution here is that I am told that the head stud threads in the block were originally machined for a tight fit to allow for a better thread seal. So be very careful what kind of thread chaser you use to clean up the threads. I bought new pumps. They are not that expensive and have worked fine so far. I used stainless fasteners all over my engine bay. Shiny is traditional IMHO. I am happy to see that you are making progress on your project. Sam Profit
I'd use the Offy stud kit. Most all flatheads will need some sealer on the stud holes of the block to prevent seeping coolant. If a guy used bolts and needed to retorque them, what that going to do to the sealant? I used a stud kit from Speedway motors, but it's probably the same kit as the Offy. New 8BA water pumps are not expensive, and it's lots easier to fix it now. And DO use a stainless bolt inside the pump with anti-seize on it. Allen head bolts don't belong on a flathead. Hex heads all the way, and polished stainless is pretty on a show engine.
Another votes for head bolts over studs. If you are using aftermarket heads, they tend to have oversize holes, usually 1/2". The word is that the makers started doing this because of complaints about difficulty in removing heads that have been on for a while. The problem with this is that the heads can move around on the block whether you use bolts or studs. One of the better known flathead builders "pins" his heads on all of his builds. This is a good idea, but not practical for most of us. Here is a link to a thread I have on the "Ford Barn" with an alternative way of approaching this problem. : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230469&highlight=tubing. It was well accepted there, even by the "pros".
Very helpful info all! Thank you. Tubman, in fact, Gary (GOFAST) in my machinist on this and the heads and block have been pinned. ~ Carl
Skip Haney. https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84103 Or just buy a set from MacVp here on the H.A.M.B. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/ Skip installs high velocity impellers. They work great.
"PETEJOE" - You seem to know a bit about Skip's pumps; perhaps you can clarify something. I know he installs high efficiency impellers on the pre-8BA pumps, but don't the 8BA pumps already have an improved impeller (stock) that does not need to be replaced?
I will deviate from the pack here just for the hell of it. Water Pumps: I used water pumps from HandH Flatheads. They have sealed bearing and a better designed impeller. They look the same but are all new production. HandH builds some wild HP flatheads and they know how to cool them. Studs: On studs vs. bolts, I went studs and stainless acorn nuts. Good advice, I added washers under the acorn nuts to make sure they didn't "bottom out" in the head of the acorn and give a false torque reading. This was partially due to a little decking on the heads to dial in my compression ratio but I'd advise it on any stud/acorn install. ARP: I also went for the extra few hundred dollars and installed ARP studs, for the simple reason that it is cheap insurance. All ARP does is build high end fasteners, period. They know their business and I know I have them in every motor I own right now. I should buy stock in that company! Photo: Because every thread needs one! PS: ARP fasteners on mains, rods, etc. as well. I have a bad habit of assaulting my engines from time to time (read daily) and I pay extra to make sure they don't assault me back. Hex vs. Allens: I'm with the pack on that one, hex bolts, SS. I used allen heads on some exterior body bolts for looks and easy of cleaning but they look funny on a motor.
It goes without saying that the washers "Bandit Billy" mentions should be used whether you are using studs or bolts. I install my gaskets with plain grease (no sealers), Permatex on the threads, special washers (from "GOSFAST", BTW), stock Ford script bolts and have not had any leak or gasket problems on my last three builds. I have a stock Ford bolt that I have carefully filed grooves in to chase the holes in the block. After a few builds, the extra care required becomes automatic and problems are minimized. Beautiful engine, Billy. I'd go the extra mile if I could afford it, but you can get by a lot cheaper if you have to.
I am a straight traditional kind of guy. I would not use anything expensive because there is no need for it on a flathead unless you're going to show it off. If you're going to build the motor for high performance then, by all means, do it. Do not waste your money on the expensive studs but look for what suits your needs. If you use head bolts then go with the hex. I know that for what my flathead is, I can use standard fit head bolts. No one is going to see them, anyway. You can always cover them if you feel the need. Water pumps. Shop around. Even Speedway has some decent water pumps. Depends on what brand you want.
There are a lot of good sources for the new style pumps. As far as improved impellers, I haven’t seen any tests provided anywhere for comparison except on skips pumps. He has the data to show you. He designed his impellers himself years before the others followed. I too have used the speedway pumps on an 8BA. No problems with them. I too have used skips on another 59a engine. If you have a temperamental flatty or drive in a really warm climate. I would spend the extra money and go with skips design . I believe skip makes them for the 8BA?
I know he rebuilds 8BA pumps, but to he best of my knowledge, the stock impellers are just fine. I personally have never had a lick of trouble with stock 8BA pumps. Does anybody know for sure?
I'm running Skips pumps on my 8ba. Went with him since I'm running narrow belt Merc pumps and nobody repops them. No issues.
Okay, water pumps, since you've all convinced me to buy new... My motor was out of a truck and has the truck pumps. Which are better to drop into an A frame. Truck or car pumps? And since I'm at work and not near the motor - does anyone know if a 1952 Truck 8BA came with a wide or narrow belt? Thanks again!
Truck pumps for the install in your Model A. As already said truck pumps are wide belt. If the 8ba you're going to install is narrow belt you'll have to change the pulleys so you can use truck pumps.
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