So after going to pomona and the tulsa starbird shows, it seems as thought the traditional radical kustom is a very confused class. I feel I have built a very trad. kustom, it is chopped has more then 10 modifications , so that makes it radical, in my book. and in the judges book reads that way. so what I'm getting at is some of the other cars in this class had digital gauges, billit wheels rubber band tires, squash colored leather interior, so why is the line so hard for some to decifer between street rod, mod rod and traditional kustom. we took 1st place rod and statement award rod by the way.
Good looking Car ! This points to why I have never take any of my cars to shows. Customs are by and large not understood. And add the quest for a true traditional custom to the mix and....... Many people don't realize that the custom scene has been going on now since just prior to WW2. They think that they are a product of the 80's when the custom scene reemerged or they call them Lowriders. LOL So that is their frame of reference. The one show that I would like to take a car to would be the Custom Car Revival in Indy.. You would be in fine company there. As an aside. I once talked with a guy that had totally restored a wooden boat and taken it to a show where he was awarded the "Best original boat" award. He jokingly referred to it as a "Staement of his ability" award. Torchie
Let me start by saying that you deserved the awards that you won. Depending on the show the judges should know the difference. I am not sure how showing works but I know racing that you cam enter in the wrong class. They probably would not let a gasser run on blown fuel, but for instance you may be best classed in Gas Coupe and enter in Comp Coupe. They really don't care if you loose and its your money. Does that make any sense? Never the less getting back to it, you deserved the awards that you won. That car you built has got it in spades.
Congrats on the win, that is very nice Kustom. The judges should have that other list to judge for a Street rod award. Who's got the billetest, skinniest rubberbands, the most machined Aluminum, nicest heartbeat paint. But that is for another forum. Do show more shots of your car though. Please list the mods you did or something to keep this tread about your cool car, I would drive any day BTW.
"Very trad. kustom ..." is an extremely ambiguous term. The word "traditional" is defined in the dictionary as "long-established". Okay. Then please define the word "long" for me ... exactly how long is "long"? See where this is heading? Your definition, my definition, and their definition are three separate things. Because you are entering some shows and looking for awards and trophies, then it's up to you to ask the judges up front what class you'll be in. You might need to correct them, and enter in some other class that's more to your liking. There's so many classes in so many shows now, darn near anything entered gets some sort of a prize or trophy ....
I like your car Merc bumper, Cad guards are great looking like the rest of the car, 40's ride height too!
HERE IS WHERE i'M GOING WITH THIS,..The word custom, when spoken at a car show, Indoor mainly , has gotten so far from the actual class. To many anything changed is a custom, but to the die hard traditional Kustom guys, It kills us to be placed in the same catagory as say a kindig it car, boyd car, many other builders names can go here. WHAT I'm trying to preserve is the Traditional Radical Kustom , and educate People on what that really is,. I am goint to build a Trophy , something grand is stature to keep this small group of builders going. something like the AMBR. But for the Traditional Radical Kustom, more details later..I am just trying to get the mind set of others, and to start some awarness. It is going to be crazy hard to draw that line between Traditional Kustom, streetrod, mod rod etc. And I am sure i am going to makes some people not soo happy , and there will be haters, but just remember this isnt personal it is what is missing in our hobby right now. I know politically correctness, tip toeing not wanting to hurt feeelings is a big reason we have gotten to where we are today, on this subject. there are soo many aspects of tradition that this is going to be a very hard road to go down.. i want to clarify right now I am not picking anyones cars, But voicing my oppinion on what needs to be done. one such example is the kin digit lincoln, is that a Traditional Kustom ? or streetrod?
Just make a cutoff date on style or parts available, you are halfway there. Granted still if you decide on say '64 ( nominal date here) your traditional customs are going to span what, say 30 years? You are gong to be lumping late '30s early '40s customs in with post war say through about '58 and then the really goofy stuff that started hitting the show circuit in the later 50s and early '60s. But that is the nature of class showing isn't it.
I don't intend to speak for Jeff but I can ASSURE you that he is not "looking for awards and trophies", and this isn't about hurt feelings. Jeff's '41 was placed in "Radical Custom Rod Coupe" at the GNRS. I would post a picture of the car that won that class but it would get deleted in a heartbeat. The two cars are complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Jeff is trying to promote the traditional kustoms. I know this means different things to different people and definitions can be argued to death.
Maybe it's just me, but the name "Radical Custom Rod Coupe" seems a contradiction in terms. Is it a Rod or a Custom? With that name, seems like it could be just about anything.
Funny first time I heard the term "Custom Rod" was at a Good Guys. I am not sure that they had the copy right on the term but that is the first time I remember hearing it. Now just to muddy things up a bit does this count as a radical custom or a hot rod?
Common '60s show rod? trick. I remember asking someone infinitely more important than I will ever be at the car show at the Cow Palace when I was real little what the difference between a hot rod and a custom was and he said, "Well Benno all hot rods are customs but not all customs are hot rods." I got an idea that someone is going to find that offensive but the man in question would probably not care were he still alive and built more then his fair share of both.
Maybe I can help, but probably not as I've been out of the ISCA show scene for some time. This applies only to ISCA sanctioned shows. The Custom Rod category is strictly a year span (1935 - 1948) in the overall Rod category, the Custom category starts at 1949 to present. There was at one time a class in the Custom category for "Early Custom" which allowed the earlier traditional styled vehicles to compete there. This seems not to be the case anymore, not sure why but possibly an apples/oranges thing with early style (fat fendered) cars competing with newer style cars. I know there wasn't a lot of cars competing in the Early Custom class, so maybe the small number is what killed the class. I liked the Early Custom class and if you talk with someone at ISCA, they might bring the class back or have a better explanation than I have as to why the class is no longer available. Mick
I stared at your 41 for quite a while on Sunday at GNRS and boy, you knocked it out of the park! Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
I think it gets to the point where there are just too many classes and it dilutes the participants to the point where, as Lurker Mick stated, there just are not enough cars participating to make it worth while. How many awards are handed out at the GNRS? It seems like about 200.
@lurker mick the early custom class (1190) still shows up in the 2018 ISCA rulebook. Do the judges decide what classes they are going to have or not have? I have heard that if there are fewer entries they move into other classes but this year there was more than one class that only had one entry.....
Sancho, you're right, I should have looked at the new rule book on line. it seems the judging supervisor placed the 41 in the Radical Custom Rod Coupe class, where it fits instead of the Early Custom Class where I believe it fits much better. I always put the early style customs in the Early Custom Class if they fit because I'm a custom guy, but I have noticed many supervisors prefer the Radical Custom Rod Class. The difference as it affects the cars owners is if they prefer to compete in the Rod Category or the Custom Category. If you have an early style custom or any car actually and feel you're car has been misclassified always talk to the judging supervisor or whoever is classifying and tell them your concerns, they will discuss it and change the class or tell you why they classed it as they did. Again Sancho, it is the judging supervisor who is the final say in classifying. I never moved cars to another class because of not enough cars in the class, it's not the car owners fault if no other cars in his class showed up, that's why you usually see some single car classes in shows. Mick
Sancho is a very close and dear friend, he knows me well, this isnt about what I won or didnt win, or even awards or trophies. it's more about tradtion, respect to those before us that built cars like the aztec, ,predicta, manta ray, lil bat,sillouette, track star,jade idol,dream truck, you get the idea.. this is about keeping that feeling and excitement of seeing something that makes you jump up and down and want to yank your dads thumb off, as you are trying to show him what you see.It's going to take some time to get there, and hopfully this doesn't get closed or locked down. please bear with me, while i try to get to the bottom of this, and hopefully educate some people in the mean time. Yes , this is what we are talking about, the 1190 trad. rad kustom class, we were switched classes and combined with 4380 rad customrod coupe., I wished to stay in the 1190 class, because it is a better fit, as the car is built in the lets say pre 56 era custom style,one spot light, not too low, bias plies, hub caps, non upholsterd running boards,. very early traditional.. I feel my car would have fit more in the 1190 class, and I went to great effort over a 5 year build to get this car right, and I feel the judges don't take it a serious as we the builders do,. And it does matter to us, it is our life our job and our livelyhood on the line. I feel the judges have lost credibility and have blurred the line between trad rad kustom and streetrod style.which typically places a car like mine in with lets say kindig its linc,... mine is a real world car can and will be driven,
bottom line is , yes those who know really dug it, i watched jimmy vaughn and lee pratt look it over for 30 mins,. that makes it all worth the long hours late nights, if you can get a hard core guy to stop for 30 mins, and look your car over that hard, you've pulled it off. But we still need to fix the judging part because it isn't right, and all the kustom guys before us that paved the way build cars in this style, so I think it is a part of history and needs to be preserved, just like the AMBR. So that being said I'm working on some simular to the AMBR but for tradition Radical Kustoms only. A major award grand in staure, and hopfully guys will be building cars just to try to win this prestigious award.
@lurker mick Thank you for the informative response. Part of our question stems from the fact that there was no 1190 class at all this year. Personally I thought all the cars in 4380 Radical Custom Rod Coupe would have been in 1190 except the one that won the class. There is also a class called Traditional Custom (1280) but the classification guide reads a little like rat rods to me. "Traditional Custom "traditional theme" no paint, rough appearance, but must be safe for the road (tires, brakes, floorboards, etc.). Both classes may be broken down by body style and/or by model year. If any entries in this class is found to be non-acceptable because of safety concerns, the entry will be a noncomp." Both classes in the above references Nostalgia Custom (1270) which is for suede cars with a nolstagic theme. What ever that means... their example is a '50 Mercury with suede paint, whitewalls, and smoothies.
Yes, like you, I believe Finkd's 41 is a perfect fit for the Early Custom (1190) class. I agree both the 1270 class & the 1280 class are not a good fit for a finished, shiny painted etc. early style custom. The problem with a radical custom competing in the Rod Category is that the custom body work isn't given as much importance when competing for the special awards in the Rod category. Mick
I guess I don't really understand where this is going. Are you trying to get a new award added to the GNRS? Is the idea to get it sanctioned and judged by ISCA or have it as a special award like the George Barris Custom D'Elegance award where a small group or individual picks the winner without really formally "judging" the cars? As mentioned traditional is a pretty ambiguous term. Personally, although I acknowledge that the cars Jeff listed as examples of traditional fall in what would be commonly accepted as traditional not a single one of them is what I would think of if someone asked me to give examples of a traditional custom. I also see very few of those types of cars being built in a traditional mold. The vast majority of new "traditional customs" being built seem to fall into the pre 1953 era of styling. If this is meant to be a ISCA points based award I see the same sort of issues befalling it as has happened with the AMBR where the traditional crowd get all up in arms because a car like the Eddie Dye Roadster doesn't win the award because it doesn't check off all the right judging boxes. Sounds like a cool idea but I can see a point based award being a slippery slope, if it became a sought after award, that quickly moves things in the same direction judged car shows took back in the late 50's which was change for the sake of change to garner points and not to improve the car. I look forward to seeing where this is headed.
I'll let Jeff give details of the plan, but this is not intended to be added to ISCA awards/judging. The idea was an AMBR-like trophy (for kustoms) that will get names added to it. It has a potential location but I don't want to spill the beans..... definitely not a "formally judged" award.
Jeff, the point your are making is exactly why I quit the KKOA several years ago. Got sick and tired of hearing about how anything with non-stock wheels, or a pinstripe on it, made it a "kustom." Made no difference what year, make, or model it was. Everything just got lumped together as either early or late model. A ton of cars that were way more street rod than anything else were always in the winner circle simply because of modifications and not the direction of the build.
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