i have been trying to finish up my 1950 chevy, and am having one problem after another. 292 straight six, t5, s10 rear end with the "posi" g lock. as i was pulling out of the garage the car stops by itself, like i slammed on the brakes or something, but i didnt. i thought of all sorts of things that could cause this, maybe my driveshaft is too long, the pinion angle was wrong, the transmission was acting up, because when i jacked it up the wheels all turned freely. well i decided to take the rear brake drums off to have a look. this fell out onto the floor. its supposed to be under the master cylinder, wedged in between the brake shoes, i figured this out from looking at the other side. i am not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but i like to do things myself, its not rocket science but this could have been a disaster if it locked up on the freeway. i believe this part has something to do with the parking/emergency brake, the spring looked and felt very tired. i managed to put it back in where it belongs, but i am going to take it back out and get new springs for both sides. does anyone have any idea why this would come loose? the emergency brake cables are not hooked up to anything, just tie wrapped around the frame for now until i get an emergency brake hooked up, (that will be my next project). another thing that is mystifying me is that both rear wheels locked up, 2 skid marks, left and right side. why would both wheels lock up when only one had this loose part inside the drum? any help is appreciated.
Ok, the hydraulic cylinder inside the drum is a wheel cylinder, not the master cylinder. Master cylinder is the one that the brake pedal actuates up front. The fact that the parking brake cable isn't hooked up is probably why that bar came out. It's purpose is to apply force to both shoes when the parking brake is applied. The reason both rear wheels slid is because you have a positraction rear axle.
Bigdog, thanks for the reply. i had a brain fart when i said master cylinder, wheel cylinder is what i meant. and the rest of your answers are what i thought, just glad to have someone else confirm it for me. thanks gain. long live the HAMB!!!! this is a great place!!!!
would it hurt anything or be dangerous if i just remove those bars until i get the cables hooked up? if it fell out it is likely to fall out again, and i want to drive the car a little bit before i figure out an emergency/parking brake because i am very slow at these things hahhahaha. i think too much sometimes.
you can remove them, then they won't fall out. It fell out because there is no tension on it, from the park brake cable. Might be wise to get all that stuff working, before you drive too far.... I always get the handbrake working on my old cars before I drive them around. But I'm in the tiny minority.
Taking the bar out shouldn't affect normal operation of the brakes, but having a working parking brake before you drive it is a really good idea. Especially if you're still running the original single circuit master cylinder.
You've committed to go this far, all you have to do now is push the parking brake cable through the hole in the backing plate so it engages and connect the inner cable to the lever. Once both sides are done you can adjust the cable. Make sure that the actuating rod and spring are seated correctly on both shoes and parking brake lever. As everyone else has stated, I wouldn't skimp on this as it could become a safety issue if you loose hydraulics. At least you'd then have a backup mechanical rear brake for use in an emergency.
Did the original brakes use a bolt on cable? rather than a snap in cable? Something like that could make it a bit more difficult to connect the brakes, then some guys anticipate.
Might I suggest that you get everything hooked up and have a licenced mechanic make sure that everything is in its proper place before you put the drums and wheels on. Brakes and steering are two safety items that should be checked out by a professional. Just my 2 cents worth!!!
Ummm, I don't think a great percentage of the folks on this site would have a "licensed mechanic" check the brakes and steering on their hot rods. I for one, consider myself to be as good or better than most of the "mechanics" in the shops around here. And I doubt that I'm in the minority of most folks on this site.
You are far enough away from, where I live so I don't have to worry about you hitting me. So do what you want, but if it were me I would take it or tow it to a mechanic shop and have the brakes fixed .
Rick r 44, i agree with you about brakes and steering being important. if i could find a mechanic that could do the stuff i want done i would gladly give him my money. I have NEVER been satisfied with any work done by anyone i paid to help me with this car, thats why i have done nearly everything myself. this stuff isn't that hard if you have patience, you can find nearly everything on u tube or google these days. sumbitch professional wanted $1000 to install a headliner for me, i bought a stapler and went at it myself and it came out real nice even thought it was a pain in the ass. i know it came out better than that slack ass "professional" would have done after listening to him whine about how hard those old cars are to do, fuck him. if i do another car i will buy a sewing machine and learn to do upholstery myself too so i can do it ALL by myself. The only guarantee i have if i go to a "professional" is that i will be unsatisfied and pissed off at myself for trying to go the easy way. not to say that there aren't good people out there, but i haven't found any yet. only thing they are all good at is taking a lot of your money. this has just been my experience, not trying to be a smart ass.
it looks like my brake shoes are put on backwards? from what i understand, the bigger one should be on the rear side, the shorter one on the front? i never messed with drum brakes before so maybe someone can set me straight.
Yes the shorter or primary shoe should be on the front and the longer or secondary shoe on the rear, this is essential for servo brakes to work properly Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Let me tell you about my experience with one of those spreader bars falling out..... I put an 8" Fairlane rear under my Lincoln. Brakes were shot, so I did the whole works, shoes, wheel cylinders, springs, hardware, etc. My E brake cables had been torched off at the front, so I took them off until I could figure out what I needed for them. Also left the self adjusters off, the E brake cable fastened to a lever that connected to them, it wouldn't stay in place without the E brake cable, but never thought about the spreader bar needing the pressure from the E brake lever to keep the shoes together enough that it wouldn't fall out. Drove it around a good while, everything worked fine, or so I thought. The spreader bars both fell out, bouncing around in the drums. We went on a longer trip in the car, when we got there, we only had front brakes! And one of those kept getting hot and locking up, but that's another story. I thought the master was bad, so when I got home, I was ready to change it when I decided to try to adjust the rear brakes again. What I saw puzzled me, something was blocking the starwheel hole, finally got it out of the way, decided to take the drum off. It was the spreader bar, or what was left of it! It had beat the adjuster until it had backed the brakes off, on both sides. After studying the diagram for the brakes, I saw my error in putting the bar in without the other linkages, there was nothing to keep it from falling out. When you haven't done a drum brake in years, you forget the simple shit sometimes. Too many disc brake jobs make you forget all the stuff to make drum brakes work. Oh, there was a good thing about it happening though, I found a bad axle bearing on one side when I was taking the drum off. Apparently it was on it's last legs when I put the rear in and gave it up on the long trip. I replaced both sides just to be sure.
On my Ford w/ drum brakes all the way around, I couldn't find a set of long and short shoes for the rear axle. Front axle sure, but I sears & roebucked through the boxes of a few different brands and they were all equal length. Was the short shoe/long shoe only a front axle deal, maybe since around 70% of stopping power is from the front brakes? Since they are servo "self-energizing" Bendix design it sure seems like all 4 corners should be setup that way though.
We just did rear brakes on one that had equal length shoes. The ones we took off were equal length as well. I can't remember what it was though. They sorta all blend together
I've never seen, or know of any correct shoe linings intended for a Bendix duo-servo brake that are equal length. The shoes are the same, but the primary front linings should be shorter than the secondary rears, and commonly of a different material.
Best we can recall is it was a 98 Nissan Quest 130k miles. Way off topic All 4 linings were the same size on the ones we took off and the new replacements. At 130 I'd say they were most likely original shoes we took off.
if that spreader bar is for the emergency brake why does my 61 Dodge have one where the emergency brake is on the tail end of the transmission? are you guys smoking crack?
The brakes are most likely non-servo with fixed lower anchors, not duo-servo in design, and the reason all 4 shoes are the same.
i changed the shoes around to the correct position, i must say drum brakes are a pain in the ass. i also connected the emergency brake cables to a turnbuckle so i could put some tension on them so the bar doesn't fall out again. i had to rig up some pulleys to route the cables so they didnt rub against the exhaust. i also had to shorten the "rubber conduit" on the cables because the original bracket of the 50 chevy was very close to the wheel, whereas the s10 cables rubber conduit was way to long. i crimped on an intermediate cable to the 2 cables and ran it thru a turnbuckle that is mounted to the trans crossmember. i tightend the turn buckle and got some tension on the cables and the strut thing stopped jiggling around and seems to be in there nice and tight now. i think i am safe to drive it around a little now. my next job will be to get a handbrake that i can mount to the transmission tunnel and hoow it up to the turnbuckle, then i should be good to go. my dual exhaust forced me to get rid of the original handle, brackets etc. im off to the junkyard tomorow.
I'd try to use the original hand brake. It fits, and it's just cable to hook up. Hooked up the original hand brake in a 40 Ford I did with original front cable, and aftermarket rear cables to Ford 9". It's doable.
I've been doing drum brakes since 1972 or so, never saw an equalizer bar fall out and you didn't lose the spring! The brakes must have been backed way off and the parking brake was loose as a $2 you know what.
To properly adjust the park brakes, set the rear axle on jack stands, (to position the cables) loosen the park cables and adjust the brakes....that is, after checking that the brakes are assembled correctly. Pull the drums, center the shoes to the backing plate and adjust the park cables so the struts can move 1/16"-1/8" when fully pushed against their springs in the primary shoes, while making sure the park levers are fully returned. No way should the "strut things jiggle"! This usually requires several checks side to side for centered shoes and freely moving cables. One big disadvantage of exposed/bare park cables is sometimes (often) difficult and complex routing. Using enclosed cables can make this job much cleaner and simpler, either factory style or from the aftermarket.
well i got a brake handle installed next to my shifter and hooked up the cables and the results werent good enough for me, it worked but i want to go with the enclosed cables. its very tricky to route the cables so they dont touch the exhaust or drive shaft. i wasnt happy with the pullys, so i am back at square one. however, the car stops much better now since i put the shoes in the drum correctly. so at least i am making progress. so where can i get some parking brake cables, i dont want to go to the junkyard, i want to have cables made to my specifications, or even, better, where can i get the parts to make the cables myself?
You could always go with one of the "electric", E-Stop type parking brakes; it would solve the hand brake handle issue (also works as an anti theft device). I had an issue with the rear brakes on one of my 56 Chevrolet Sedan Deliveries; one side was getting hot, even with just a short drive; course it had a tendency to pull to one side also, and the brake drum was extremely difficult to remove. I adjusted things, tore things down and reassembled, nothing seemed to help. The nephew was helping me, he was doing the parts cleaning (gotta start somewhere), and finally asked me WHY the two spreader bars (his name) were different lengths. WHAT????? He had noticed it some time earlier, just did't mention it (?????)! We dug through my stash of brake parts, found another to match the "shorter" one, and put everything back together. Everything worked fine, adjusted easily, and the one side no longer got hot; amazing! I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Try the guys over at controlcables.com. I bought a few things from them to reconfigure my parking brake cables on my 1950 Sedan Delivery project and they were very helpful. I am using an S10 rear as well. A bit pricey perhaps but I like the way it turned out. They will make any length you need and have all kinds of hardware you might want or need. I ordered from them on a Wednesday and had my stuff by Tuesday the following week.
Lokar offers quality park brake cables, kits and accessories, also my choice. http://lokar.com/ebrake-cables.html
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