Super T10 vs. T10 4-speed

Everytime I tried to search here for "T10" or "T-10" it wouldn't bring anything up except things I wasn't looking for...

In addition to apparently being stupid to the search function here I'm stupid to the T10 4-speed. I know Muncie and Borg Warner made them and they were foud in a variety of makes and models mostly GM. I also found there to be a Super T10 and a "regular" T10. I've heard good stuff about both models and both makers.

What's the differences between the two and how much better is the Super (assuming it's... well... err... more super )?

I know nothing about manual 4-speeds, so if anyone can point me in right direction, shoot me some info, or tell me what to look for and what vehicles might be a good place to look at to pull one from my local pic-it-apart, it would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

what size hemi will be bolted up to the new transmission?

 

the T-10 was made in the old days, by Borg Warner (not GM, there is no such thing as a Muncie T-10). It was used in many different cars, BW built models for Fords, GMs, Ramblers, etc.

The Super T-10 was introduced in the 70s, and used mostly in GM cars like the Vette and Camaros, but also some other milder cars. It has a 26 spline input shaft (vs 10 splines on the T-10), and a bigger TH400 sized output shaft. This is a pretty strong tranny. You can buy them new, apparently Richmond Gear now owns the design.

 

331 punched out +.125 with some minor speed stuff. Not too much HP, but enough to have some added fun and excitement . Hot Hemi Heads sells a nice adapter for the extended bell block.

Thanks Tred...

 

So it's safe to say if I went to my local salvage yards and dug around in some early 70's to 80's camaros I could probably score one? What would I expect to pay for a nice rebuildable unit (not on Ebay)? Is there a web page somewhere that would give me some identifying markings to look for so I knew what I was getting (besides the cast date on the side)?

 

If you can find a Super T-10 in a car in a junkyard, you've got lots better yards than we do around here. Z28s and TransAms used them throughout the '70s. To my knowledge, they all had aluminum main cases and tailstocks, with a cast iron side cover. If it's still in the car, the large output is the best giveaway, but if you find any four speed with a 9 bolt side cover, it's a T-10 of some sort and deserves to be adopted. I don't see them for less than $400 anymore.

 

What year did they STOP using them in Z28's and Transams?

What's a good shifter for these things? Anything short and simple?

One more stupid question about the T10... Hydraulic clutch?? STOP LAUGHING! I have to learn EVERYTHING some time!

 

Also, besides the shafts and splines... is the mounting the same between the super and the early T10?

 

Got mine from a 79 Trans -Am...Like the man says,fine spline input and a 400 size output yoke! $500.00 Canadian made it mine.Ratmotor.

 

May not be cost effective up front, but Jegs sells the richmond super t-10 4 speed for $1275 or $1390 depending on gear ratio. You can get a wide variety of gear ratios and may save you money in the long run as a worn out trans can get pricey to re-build. Hurst comp.plus is a great shifter. Gary

 

I thought about going this route also. I may use a beat one just to get things started (frame built, etc.), but a transmission out of a Z28 or a Vette may be beat even with a rebuild. We'll see...

 

I think the super T-10 was used till the early 80s, probably 82 in vettes, and 81 for sure, and possibly 82 or 83 in Camaros.

 

Damn; I like to think I'm so original, and I've been lookin' for a T-10 to put behind a 331, too.

Kinda' like everybody 'daring to be different' with a Goodwrench-motored bulletnose... oh WTF - I'll just ask my question.

Does anyone know if the Super T-10 guts can be put into the earlier case to get wider gear spreads? I've been told it takes bigger bearings (the late one), but has anyone cut out the bearing bores in the tranny case to stick the super guts in a 'retro' case? Or, modified the clusters & shafts or whatever to go in early case?

-bill

 

pm sent

 

Can anyone recommend a good street or even street/strip hydraulic clutch to bolt up to the Hemi that will run good with that transmission? 26 input shaft it looks like... Any reason NOT to go Hydraulic?

 

The ST-10 is the later, and STRONGER version of the T-10. These are great transmissions without the cost of a Muncie.

They were available in a few different ratios.

I am running a ST-10 behind a 454 in my 51 Chevy with no problems. It was totally rebuilt with zero miles and I paid $700 for it. I have seen ST-10 "builders" (cores) go for $250 - $350 around here.

Good luck finding them at a junk yard!

 

Well, it doesn't really matter what engine you are running. You just need a master cyl, and a slave cyl. From there you can always make custom brackets to locate the cyl's.

On my 51 I am using a TCI pedal assembly with a Wilwood master cyl. The slave cyl is from a late model Chevy truck which is mounted on a custom bracket that I made up.

Check the Wilwood web site, they have a nice master cyl and a "puller" type slave cyl that would work well together.

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

I have a hydraulic clutch setup using a later model Chevy dumptruck bellhousing.I,m going to switch to a master that has the reservoir part of it instead of remote like the truck.Saves a z bar getting in the way of the headers!Ratmotor.

 

the only thing I would be wary of on the hydraulic clutch set up would be slave cylinder throw. my stock T-10 has a mile of travel. (okay,not a mile but at least 3 or 3 1/2 inches-man math) and a TON of adjustment room. point being-dont set up initially for the slave to be fully extended at your first go-round. the clutches these things use are pretty thick, so give yourself a good amount of adjustability.

oh yeah-t-10,centerforce clutch,389= big smoky burnouts,even in a 5700 lb car!

 

like said above your only going to find super t10's in hipo cars and you'll be very lucky to find one in a wrecking yard...most of the 4 speeds for gm at the yard will most likely be a saginaw (car and truck). as far as i know all the gm manual trans had the same bolt pattern to the bellhousing (up until the mid 80's) the part that differed was the register on the trans (the circle part that fits through the hole in the bellhousing). in friends model A he's useing a saginaw 4spd hooked to a built tri-carbed 350 with an 11" clutch and he's been beating the crap outta it for 5 years with no problems (with the trans).

 

Very doublful you'll find any of them in a wrecking yard _ this isnt 1990 anymore. Super T10s were put into vette's as late as 87 so you can further your search. Used perf sticks will be in the $500 range most of the time and will be usable but wont be perfect.

My honest opinion, save yourself the hassle and pony up the cash and buy a richmond T10, and a Mcleod hyd t/o bearing.

Clutch recommendations depends on many many factors....so help us out with those. car weight, actual tq of the engine, rear gearing, flywheel weight, tires, intended usage, etcetc

 

WHEW! Lots of good info here! Thanks for all the help!

Still looking for a resource of some sorts that will help me identify the trans when I find it. Numbers, markings, etc.

Nick S... car isn't built yet. Just doing some serious planning right now. I don't have much more then a dirty old 331 Hemi and the Model A body I will be working with... oh... and a bunch of ideas! Cars intention if for fun in the sun and cruisin' around town. Will be driven though. There are a number of road trips this car will see in the future... I want it to get up and go when I want it to though... I have no intentions of doing any kind of serious strip runs or anything beyond a little fun at the stop lights...

 

In that case, don't be afraid of running a Saginaw. You can probably come home with 4 or 5 of them for the price of one Super T-10.

 

I agree with Heathen. saginaws will be all cast iron and look like a T10. Those cam in camaros, vega,s trucks etc. and are still around becasue nobody wanted them for drag racing.

 

Okay, tell me about the saginaw then. Is it a 4-speed, I assume?

I still need some resources for T10 identification also!

How is the T5 trans? I may have a lead on a T5, but once again, know nothing about it. Maybe the thing to start asking here, is....

What's a good GM 4-speed transmissoin to run for a good street runner behind an early Hemi? Everyone is telling me the Super T10's are good. Is there something comparable? I will spend the money for a Richmond if it's a good transmission. I would rather NOT spend that kind of dough though, so if there is something comparable that would be a good rebuilder then let's hear about it. Not saying I have to buy a NEW trans if I get a T10, just not ruling it out if I'm going to spend that kind of money anyway rebuilding one.

 

General Motors brought out the Saginaw four speed in '66 as an economical alternative to the Muncie. It was used in cars such as 326 powered LeMans and 327 Chevelles and Camaros. People piss and moan about them, but I've seen just as many destroyed Muncies and T10s over the years as I have Saginaws, and like I said, you can afford to have a couple spare Saginaws in your garage and still come out cheaper than what you'll have in a good Super T10. I bought a good Saginaw at the Maple Grove swap meet last month for $25.00! Not much chance of doing that with any T10, unless you find an aging motorhead with Alzheimer's.

 

So are we saying that a saginaw is just as strong of a transmission as a Super T10?

 

I would stay away from the regular T-10. The aluminum version used in GM cars anyway. I have seen several of those barf their guts on the ground behind basically stock 327s.

 

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that I should stick with Super T10s or the Richmond models if I'm going to pick one up.

Still, what about T5's? Any good? Do they have the same mounting pattern as the T10 on the bell-side face? Are these a waste of time? Should I stick with a T10 model? I still really like the idea of going with a T10.