I have no idea and much reading ahead, to learn about these older classics. I find myself looking for a older frame, to park this old pickup bed on. I am going to assume right off the bat, this frame would need modification for the bed to work. ... Any idea on a scale of 1 - 10 how big of a mod it would be? Should just keep looking? And if I do keep looking, what would be the ideal frame to look for? Basically, I have the start of a project with this bed, I do not know what year it is. I need to start gathering parts, and looking for a little help on what to look for. This frame is on my local craigslist, I like it because it is pretty complete. But complete does not mean it would work for my purpose. Also I look at this add, and drool over owning it, I figure must be worth about 3 Trillion dollars. What would be a fair offer? Here is the ad. Entire 1930 Ford Model A Sport Coupe frame and power train. Engine turns over easily with hand crank. Left and right front fenders in restorable shape. Five 21 inch wire wheels. Will consider reasonable offers on any or all. And this is the cornerstone of the project.
The bed is 1928 through mid 1931. The late '31's has a squared off bottom. The Model A used the same frame for the passenger car and the pickup for all 4 years of production so the bed should bolt onto any Model A frame. There are certain minor differences that would be of interest to a restorer. That is the easy part. There are two things that you will find out as you get into these older classics. First, for most people, the market today is such that you can buy a restored car (or a HAMB friendly car) for less than you can build one. Second, for most people, you should start with the best car you can afford. I think you should look a little before you start with that chassis. If you are set on starting with this chassis I would like to suggest that you make a spreadsheet and lay out all of the costs. When you are finished you might post it here to get comments on your numbers. When you have the final number compare it with the cost of what you can buy one for. A couple of more thoughts. From the patina on that chassis it looks like it might be completely worn out. Finding one from a restored car where a hot rodder has pulled the body to build a car is a better idea. Be sure it comes with a title and the serial number matches the frame. That would be a very big plus. Charlie Stephens
Charlie offers very sage advice. Before proceeding I would get a clear picture in your head of exactly what you want to build. This will ultimately save you a lot of time and money. As a guess I reckon the vast majority of projects never get finished by those that start them, partially for that reason. Unless you want a banger its unlikely you will be using much of that chassis so if you are going to start from scratch instead of a complete car maybe just go with a bare chassis which you shouldnt pay much more than $500 for a really good one. If you can get a title with it even better. Pretty sure all Model A (Except AA etc) frames are the same too.
I really like that idea Charlie, Let me put it down here and see what comes out. I will add that I will do all the work myself, if machine work is needed it would be farmed out. I would be happy with a bed, tub, grill shell. I would like to maybe add fenders, hood etc later but not required. This will be a pretty basic first time hot rod build. Should limit the extra cost and skill needed for a more advanced version. My skill level is a master carpenter, working with construction remodel of commercial/residential homes. Love remodel because of the different challenges repairing old buildings etc.... I can make just about anything out of wood, am new to steel and hope to transfer the woodworking skills to metal shaping. I have basic mig welding skills, I have ran at least 6' of bead. Bed: $75 needs a lot of labor, cut out old diamond plate steel floor and home made fenders. Build a frame for the new floor and frame mounts. I see cost for material, steel, gas, wire, wood. Not sure what mounts would be buying new, in order to marry it to the frame cleanly. The frame in question above photos, cost? I do not know what is fair offer. This chassis would need minor mods. Upgrade to juice brakes. Need backing plates, drums, shoes, etc... will I be able to use the stock pedals with master cylinder or do I need pedal assembly also? Cost of new pedals and brakes? I like wire wheels, but 21" I can not get proper Hot Rod stance, new/used wheels & tires Wheels depend on the new brake drums and bolt pattern. All bushings, oil seals, king pins tie rod ends and moving parts cleaned, painted refurbed into good working order, or replaced with working parts. I think suspension wise and ride hight, can be obtained with stock springs and the new wheels. Hoping to use stock Trans / rear end. disassemble and seals bearings as needed. Motor. If I could freshen up the banger with new gaskets, rebuild carb and dizzy etc... I would be fine with it. I do have a rebuilt 283, power pack heads, 4 barrel. I would be looking into using this motor. Cost would be bell housing adapter, flywheel, clutch etc... it is currently mated to a power glide. Would $500 to stick in either the banger or 283 seem reasonable? 283 was rebuilt, installed in 61 wagon, car wrecked with 1k miles on motor, pulled and sitting inside for 20 years. Will need disassembled and gaskets also. End goal is a 1952 flathead 8 that I have, but drive it with the banger or 283, while rebuilding the flathead. So hard to guess at motor cost at this stage. Lets add this up so far, Cleaned painted frame with juice brakes, working suspension, bed worked over and mounted and a running motor. $1500 - $2000, not including original cost of chassis, still unknown. And not including tires and wheels. Steelies with baby moons would work for a start. Or could spend more for tires / wheels then whole car ... personal choice. Am I even close? I bet maybe even lil cheaper for basic running rolling stopping chassis. Next would be a cab, cowl, grill shell, radiator, interior, gages, lighting. These are the things that are going to add up, will be many trips to swap meets and scouring classifieds. Digging through my buddies scrap piles. I just cant put a price on these used items. I would expect gathering these parts to complete the project and doing sheet metal repairs, could be couple years. And for some reason, thinking about the project, having the goals and something to putter with in the shop. I dunno, just seems natural to have the project. Already open ended on getting the flatty ready to go in, looking for fenders and hood for future, but not needed now to drive it. I currently have my 1949 pickup in my avatar that am working on. But that is being built as a shop truck to run around to pick up parts for other projects. I think I need the model A project, more then thinking about finishing the project.
I stole this photo from another thread here, Thanks Rocker! This is where I would like my project to go, at this stage I would drive it every chance I got. I would have different wheels, hubs, brakes and stance. I would then call it a driver project. And all the while I would be collecting parts and eventually heading to something like the pickup in this photo. The only way to get there is one bite at a time for my wallet.
Start collecting parts, I would look for a good running and stopping chassis 1st. You can get a decent running chassis for about $2k-$3k. Find a cab! That will be your hardest part to locate. As for the bed mine has 2 2x4s on each side of it and a plywood floor. Not perfect but it gets the job done. You can always upgrade as need be.
I don't think mine looked bad with 21"s. I am gonna grab another set of '40-'48 drums so I can run the wires from time to time also.
Check this guy out, even just for ideas. He has a checked history but I have purchased some parts and a custom pickup box from him and he did deliver as promised. http://www.lastrefugehotrod.com/index.html
The box is cool. That chassis might be worth getting if you could get it all for $500 or so, someone would probably buy the wheels and fenders and get you in a little cheaper. If the banger ends up running you could run it for a while, and sell it later for a couple hundred once you decide you're going to swap it out for the V8 as you plan, then you didn't have much in the chassis to start with. A more complete, running and driveable A chassis is a better deal if you're going to keep the banger, but if you're going to change it all out anyway, this could be fine if the price is right. As for a body, there's lots of cowls around for a couple hundred bucks, and the rest could be fabbed if you can't find pieces. I'd rather see that than buying new repop stuff. I bought this chassis for $500 and stitched a bunch of leftover sheetmetal together to build a roadster body, it wasn't finished when I sold it but it was getting there and the new owner has it running now, I sold it for $2500 and probably had less than that in it (not counting my time, but that was for fun anyway) and it wouldn't have taken much more than time to make it functional. I'm sure you could do something similar based off of that box.
I want to say thanks to all for the advice. I have one question lingering, would the 283 work with the stock banger tranny, using a adapter. And keep original rear end? or would 283 be to much horsepower and pull it apart? The 283 is stock with the power pack heads and a 2 barrel, I have a 4 barrel holley and edelbrock manifold. maybe a small cam and headers, but it would not be a powerhouse engine. Later on with the flathead, will probably be less HP then the sbc. And if they wont work for the lil v8, then I should pass on complete chassis like advised and just pick up a frame. I do not race or hot rod .... much, maybe jump on it a little to hear the pipes, nothing serious. And thanks again.
The Model A tranny is a poor choice. It probably couldn't hold up with the 283 but equally important I have never heard of an adapter being made for this conversion. Also the transmission is totally non synchro. The rear end would probably hold up if you drove it normally. There were a lot of 283's used with early V8 transmission and original rear ends. What ever you do start early to be sure the paperwork is clean. I would go for the "pick up a frame" idea or better yet find a completed (first choice) or in work vehicle (second choice) to start with. Charlie Stephens
The A transmission is not worth keeping in an engine swap. Honestly, even with the 4 banger, a conversion to a '39 trans is a huge improvement. You can buy bare A frames for $200, if that's all you're going to use, just start there.
I am not sure if my thinking has any validity. This would be my first complete build. The Model A seems like a great place to start, is such a basic vehicle. My thoughts are, if I had a complete chassis to start with, I may not use the original steering box, but I see how everything is connected and interacts with other pieces. I have a starting point. I am not really creating the steering from scratch, I am just adding to and improving on something someone else already did. Starting with a bare frame, is like a blank piece of paper. I need a front axle but what width. I need to mount suspension but what spring works with which brackets? How many times will I buy something I think I need, just to find out it wont fit or it is not what I really want. I can see with a complete chassis there will be parts I would not use, but somehow help me see the complete picture. And this thinking may be total BS. I am pretty good with computers. I pick up used or broken computers and strip them down and store the parts in boxes. See someone selling a good part for cheap and buy it for future stock. I can go out to the shop and build a decent pc from the parts. I pick the case from the assortment I have, Then scrounge through the boxes and pick a mother board to go with that case, then pick a cpu that works with that mother board, decide how much ram I want to run on this box and select it from 6 different kinds in my stash. Then choose my video card ..... Its not rocket science, but a little confusing if you never done it before. When I started I bought all kinds of things that would not work, I fried many electronic parts doing things we should not do. So I can understand how you guys can just go out to the shop, and dig through the pile and create something that works. Thats how the pro's do it! Just how did you create that pile you guys are digging from?
How are you with cameras? Maybe a few tips to swap meets and a few photos of suspension components would build your confidence. Charlie Stephens
Well I heard back from the owner of the chassis last night. He sounds like a great guy, showed a photo of his completed coupe. He did a nice job. Anyways the frame/drive train is already spoken for. The new owner will come Nov 4th to pick it up. Is a full days drive one way for the buyer, time constraints and job etc .... So the good news is, the old iron is getting put back to use. Bad news is, not by me sniff He did say, if something happens and the guy does not show up to buy it Nov 4th, he will contact me and let me know. Now I will continue search for a bare frame.
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