Technical WINTERS CHAMP HD 10" AXLE & BRAKE INSTALL - NEED ADVICE

I had purchased this Winters Champ HD 10" QC rear on eBay with Southwest Speed, which sent it WITHOUT the axle tubes and Winter Track installed because of my residential address. I just finished installing the Winters Track, bells and tubes last weekend. Now I need to install the axles.

This rear came with Currie 11" Drum Brakes which is completely assembled. My question is this: Can I install these axles WITHOUT bolting up these brakes? I'm hoping to install the brake assemblies AFTER the rear gets installed in my rod. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

My brother Scott had to help me hold the rear vertical to install the Winters Track and help me button everything up to this point - THANKS BRO!!

 

I did get instructions from AJ at Southwest Speed, but they are not quite that detailed. He mentioned somewhere of pressing the axles and immediately thought I had to go to a machine shop. I want to do this myself in my own garage!

 

You will just have to pull the axles out to bolt on the backing plates.. No big deal.

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Thanks Dave - I'd be better off installing the brakes to complete the rear. I'll purchase a pair of steel 3 wheel dollies to keep the rear from getting scraped up on the floor and can roll it around while it's being mocked up for me to install later!

 

Another concern, the rear came with bolts to bolt down the axles and brake assembly (look at the last photo). They look like grade 8, but not sure. I just bought stainless steel bolts, flat & lock washers. Which would be the better choice?

 

Stainless are weak in my opinion and need lube or antisieze for sure. I would use grade 8's. To bad it doesn't have floaters. It's ez to use clamp ons for discs and any suspension you choose.

 

Typical common stainless steel fasteners found at your hardware store are just above Grade 2. I personally would not use them.

If you want a bright finish, really strong fasteners, get some ARP bolts.

 

You might want to do yourself a favour and slip the axles in now just to check the fit. I had a pair that were supplied 2" too wide per side! (nb It wasn't Winters fault however - the supplier would get the Winters assembly complete except for axles, and get the from Dutchman - I don't believe it was a quality issue, I suspect they just made more margin on the deal that way.) They should just slide in quite easily, so easy enough to check if you haven't already.

Regarding the bolts for the backing plates. These cannot be seen at all when the drums are installed so why would you consider replacing them?

Chris

 

Hi Chris, my rear was a completed assembly at Southwest Speed, where I purchased from on eBay. It had to be taken apart to be shipped to me, being a resident and not a shop. As far as the bolts for the axles, I just did not want any rusting in the future, thinking the stainless would be preferred.

 

Can the axles be installed while the rear is across the table? Do I need a soft or firm hammer (with a lot of care) to make sure the axles - once they line up with the splines to fully engage the Winters Track?

 

Mike..

They should slide right in..
Lube the spines with some of the correct gear oil and stick them in..
Make sure the seals are installed in the axle tubes.
Keep in mind , the backing plates are 1/8" thick.....
If you do decide to leave them off while you are working on the mounts ( which is perfectly ok, as I said in my first reply) that you need a couple of washers as a spacer between the tube end and the retaining plates..
Otherwise you will tighten everything up and bend the retaining plates.
Not the end of the world , but it's all nice and new.. best to keep it pretty..lol



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Better to bolt everything up including the brake assemblies so there's NO chance of any screw ups... Thanks again Dave! Here's a shot of the Currie drum brake assembly... Also, one last question, I'm trying to figure out how to install the brake assembly - looking at the 1st photo showing the axles with the 4 bolt mount.

 

Well....
Here is how it's done on a 9" ford.. ( that is what the tubrs are)
The bolts face out from the tubes.. backing plates hang on the bolts.. axles slide in.. nuts go on ...
Factory Ford bolts are still available that have a rectangle shape head.. No need for a wrench..
Just zip the nuts on using a socket thru the big hole between the studs !


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Oh yeah...i probably don't need to say this..
But I'm going to any way..
The wheel cup goes on top..
And..
When you put the brake shoes on.. the SHORT shoe goes to the front....

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Can't figure out how to edit spelling on this new version..
Wheel cyl ( cylinder) not cup..lol

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Cool! You don't see it in the photo of the drum brake assembly, it's completely assembled. Gonna knock it out tonite! Appreciate your advice Dave, along with Chris, Jimmy and Gimpyshotrods!

 

Okay, I still need some re-assurance on installing these axles. Obviously, the brake assembly cannot be installed AFTER the axles are inserted because of the diameter of the wheel stud plate. With the picture shown, am I on the right track? Bought some gear oil to line the splines with and possibly the bearing where it seats in the tube? Have the rear hanging slightly over the edge of my work bench. Couldn't get a good signal while in my garage, trying to connect to the HAMB app on my phone. Had to come back in and jump on my computer.

 

Okay! It looks like one side is in! In truth, I've never installed axles before... It felt like the bolts that were tightening on the bearing retainer plate (criss cross pattern) were driving the axle in till it bottomed out after bolts were tight. It just seems to me that these bolts could have been longer and used the bolts that were on the ends of the tubes 3/8 - 1" long (look at the third photo). I used red Loctite on them. Placed the drum on and seemed to fit nicely. Judging by my pics, does it seem to be complete?

 

Once the other side is complete, would it be wise to have the drums locked on with lug nuts to store till I'm ready to set up the rear later? Appreciate any advice I can get! Thanks!

 

Yes a couple per drum is fine and they do not have to be tight. Gary

 

Thanks Gary!

 

ASSEMBLY COMPLETE! What a bitch to line up those axle tube/backing plate bolts... Now I'm anxious to see how the So-Cal Buick finned polished aluminum covers look like when installed over the 11" drums... Thanks so much for the great advice I've had on this post!

 

31ChevyMike, you are going to have a nice rear end setup with your recent purchase. From the photos in post 19 it appears you have the preassembled brake backing plates on the wrong sides. The hole in the backing plate for the emergency brake cable should be on the front side of the axle. As Dave Lewis said in his post 15, the short shoe goes to the front. In addition, the emergency brake actuating lever and the self adjuster lever should be on the back side of the axle or toward the rear of the backing plate as viewed from the side. Looks like you may be getting a little practice on removing and installing axles.

 

First, I got a laugh out of your response. Then a bit pissed at myself! I completely forgot about the short shoe towards the front. You can imagine how relieved I am about correcting this now while its convenient on the work bench! Many thanks to you sir - I'll get back on it later today!

 

Upon checking the possibility of having the backing plates on the wrong side... I measured the length of each shoe and they are exactly the same length. Then I checked the star wheel position and the plug for the emergency cable is INDEED toward the front of the rear. It's marked with a white dash on the inside/outside of the backing plate plug (You can see with the photo). The rear plug is not there for the correct installation. Whew!!! How's that for some Irish luck! I just slid a backing plate on the driver's side axle and completed the task. My last name is CONNELLY, might have something to do with this lucky re-check! I'm more happy that the QC has been completed correctly!

 

Not the shoe length. The length of the friction material on the shoe.

 

That's what I meant. The shoe material length is the same. With the star wheel gear and the emergency brake cable plug toward the front of the rear, my installation of the axles and brake assemblies is correct. I was not knowledgeable about drum brakes for as long as I remember, even though my hot rod had drum brakes all around. I had the shoes relined at a truck brake specialist and installed the correct way. Now that I'm committed to performing most of the rebuild myself, I'll enjoy the learning curve with much more intensity! Thanks again!

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Do these gear sets have to be lubed with gear oil before being inserted in the QC? Mine are the #1 set - 4:12 on the low AND high. They're the same size, so it appears that it does not matter which gear is inserted first.

 

If you are are not going to use the rear right away, put some grease on the gears and bearings. No need to ask for rust.

Most drum brakes have a long and short shoe. If yours are the same length, I would check to make sure that both long (or short) shoes are not on the same side.

I'm an ex auto shop teacher and I have seen some pretty strange combinations that students put together.