OK guys, as many of you know, I have been trying to get my 59 Ranchero to run a little cooler. It has a mild, very mild, FE 390 in it and I can't get it run under 195 to 200 to save my life. Believe me when I say that I have done all the standard things to help out to include making sure the head gaskets are on correctly, lowered the compression ratio, replaced the radiator (4 core), insured the timing is correct, put on a flow cool HV water pump, built a really good fan shroud, using a 7 blade fan with fan clutch, insured 100% airflow through the radiator by sealing off all other areas etc etc. Here is what she does. No, the heads are not cracked. One the highway she gets up to 180 and stays there for a while (maybe 20 miles). I have a 80 T stat in her. Then she very slowly creeps up to 190, then 195, then 200. She will stay there for ever until I slow down. When I slow down, she will go up to say 205 or 210 and stay there. WTF, over?????????????
P.S, I am about 10 inches away from throwing that F%*&^&%# FE away and putting a sbc and I hate sbc's
If it ain't loosing water it ain't running hot. Seriously, 210 isn't bad for anything as long as the water stays in the system. Your radiator cap should be a minimum of 7#s. Where do you have your temp gauge sensor mounted? Should be in the intake water passage just before the T-stat housing. Did you use thread sealer or teflon tape on the sender? That stuff will mess up the accuracy of the temp gauge. Before doing anything else get a low cost infrared temp sensor (borrow or buy) and check the temp of the top tank of the radiator, see what it really is doing. My 66 Falcon was running "hot", or at least the temp gauge said it was. Got the ol infrared out and it was dead on 195....just a thought.
210 is not bad as long as it stays there. Does it get hotter in traffic (over 210)? Why do you want it to run under 200? If you want it to run cooler maybe install a 3 pass radiator.
the 360 fe in my o/t f100 puts off alot of heat when i had a 180 thermo it would get to 210 easy in traffic it got alot higher i put a 160 thermo in it and its down around 200 now and now in traffic it sees about 210
200 degrees is not a problem as long as the system can control it. As stated above-need at least a 7lb cap. If it never boils over-stop looking at the gauge
I concur with the rest of the rabble. If it isn't puking green stuff, and the temperature never continues upward uncontrollably, I would shrug it off.
Beep, I've been running FE's for quite some time and your temps match what my FE's seem to run in the summer. I've heard many on this board that say their FE's run in the 180 range, but have noticed most were quite a bit north of the southern states. I have a friend with a bone stock OT 68, 390 Mustang, that consistantly runs 200-205. The Stewart Warner electric water temp gauge read higher than actual temp in my 31 coupe based on a Fluke IR and HF IR temp gun. The direct reading capillary temp gauges are more acurate, but I never liked a 3 foot roll of capillary wire under the dash. I assume you've checked the accuracy of your water temp gauge. With help from a HAMBer, I added a couple of resistors and a zenor diode to my water temp gauge and it now reads much more accurate. Regardless, both the 427 and the 390 ran in the 195-205 range in the summer months. Neither engine ever steamed or boiled over, which to me means they havn't overheated. Keep the FE.
How big is the radiator? My guess is the original size is probably a bit too small (height times width) to really cool it well. I put a bigass cross flow in my 55 chevy it works pretty well to cool the big block. But it will go well upwards of 200 in traffic in summer.
I agree with the rest of the posters. It doesn't sound like a problem. If you really want it cooler, well, you have ruled out the most likely causes for it to run hot. The only other thing I could think of is a bigger radiator. If the radiator is limiting the cooling and it never reaches the 180 that you are looking for, well, you might as well put a stock thermostat back in it.
Thanks guys. Maybe my memory is the issue. Seems to me I remember that the older cars running around 180 or so, not 205. No, she does not blow out the water. I have a 13 lb cap on it and that holds her. Maybe I'm jusy worried over nothing. I was told that possibly the water was circulating through the system too fast and I should restric the water flow just after the Tstat. That would keep the water in the radiator longer. I bought a few restricotrs to try. The hose is 1 & 1/4 ID, the restictors narrow the ID to 3/4, 9/16 inch or 1/2 inch. What do you guys think. These came from a Ford race house
If you keep the water in the radiator longer, you will also keep it in the engine longer. To make a long story short, the engine won't run any cooler by restricting flow. You might get some benefit from a washer acting as a "turbulator" and giving you better mixing in the radiator.
If you have the thermostat in the motor you don't need the restrictors. I was a happy camper when the 428SCJ in my old Mustang ran below 200 degrees. On days where it was over 80 degrees outside it was always around 200. If you're holding steady in typical Texas heat then it sounds like you've got things covered.
This idea that the coolant needs to stay in the rad longer is absolute B#$% S*&^. Let me say that again so everyone understands it. It is complete BULL SHIT. The Engineering behind cooling systems is well defined. Basically, The heat rejection rate (Q) of a radiator is proportional to the mass flow rate (m) of the working fluid (coolant) times the difference between the inlet and outlet temps (T1 and T2). In other words: Q = m * (T1-T2) This means that if you drop the flow rate, the temperature difference must become larger. Conversely if you increase the flow rate, the temp difference gets smaller. However, (and this is the dirty little secret) THE HEAT REJECTION RATE ALWAYS STAYS THE SAME. Why??? Because the heat rejection rate is determined by the design of the rad. Things like materiel, air flow and temp across the rad, fin density, core size, etc. determine the radiators capacity. What happens is that the heat being rejected by the rad must be larger than or equal to the amount of heat being added to the coolant by the engine. This means that if your car runs at 210 deg. F on a 70 deg F. day the only way you can make it run cooler is by increasing the heat rejection capacity of the rad by changing things such as the amount of air pushed across the rad, the core size, etc. or by reducing the amount of heat the engine adds to the coolant by changing the timing, increasing air flow across the engine, etc. It is a balancing act between the heat energy added to the coolant and the heat removed by the rad. Good Luck
I'm shocked to read that an old wives tale is BS. Shocked. thanks for the explanation. Note that the big game changer is the size of the radiator....the bigger the engine, the bigger the radiator you need to cool it. Pretty simple.
I understand that 210 is not a problem but for me I still get uneasy above 190 That's just ingrained in me from the 60s. I'm too old to change now. That is why the modern cars don't have temps on the gauges and only a normal range and hot.... to keep people like me from getting nervous. I may not be getting the most out of my engine but I feel better.
FrozenMerc has got it nailed - it's all about rejecting heat in balance with the air temp of the day (T1, as he described it). The mass flow is driven by the water pump (obviously), but the actual flow rate around your clloing system is controlled by the thermostat which is designed to open fully at 180 degs F (in your instance). Restrictors won't help, but a larger radiator will - that is if you actually have a problem. The sugestion to get an accurate IR temp reading to calibrate your temp gauge is a good one - if you're still worried about dropping the running temp (though it doesn't really sound like you've got a huge problem), then a lower temp thermostat and bigger radiator will do the business for you. Good luck with it.
I'm fighting the same problem in my 60 T-Bird. It is a factory AC car with a 4 row radiator, fresh 390, .030 over, mild cam. I had the radiator cleaned and checked, new waterpump, 180 degree thermostat, fan 1" from the radiator and it runs at 200. I was running 3 degrees timing and advanced it to 10 degrees, added Purple Ice to the system, still runs around 200. My problem is that when I run the AC in the hot weather (105 f) it is okay until I shut the car off for a few minutes, then the temp rises and it vapor locks. I have a 1" fiber spacer under the carb and have insulated the fuel line. This helps but the car still runs hotter than I would like.
I got a farm tractor that has a 5 core radiator instead for the orginal 4 core which put the fan inside the shroud it kept running hot. I cut the shroud back to where only 1/4 of the fan was in the shroud and the heating problem went away.
We had a '59 Ford that got hot on really hot days. The backward-hinged hood saved her many a time, just pull the hood release and the back of the hood pops up four inches or so. The extra air venting out of the engine room pulled the temp right down. Try it!!
My bone stock other than a electronic igintion and alternator 352 runs cool as a cucumber in my f100. It runs at about 180 on the freeway and thats after 2 hours @ 60MPH on the highway at about 2000 rpm.
Beep, my father had the same problem with my o/t 68 f-250 w/390. he came across a book somewhere that helped solve our problem. the book said to change to a 4 barrel intake and to get rid of the poorly designed exhaust manifolds and install headers. the exhaust manifolds on my truck dump at the 3rd cyl back on each side and would burn that exhaust valveon each side if we weren't careful while pulling our travel trailer. changed the intake to a stock iron 4bbl,with a holley 600 and a set of full length headers along with the some of the same mods you have already done,(bigger rad, bigger fan, good shroud,tranny and p/s coolers.and now that the engine breathes a lot better it runs considerably cooler and no more burnt valves either.hope this helps you.
I have had good luck with the cast iron flow kooler water pump on my FE's and I use a small block ford water pump pulley . C5 part number pulley is smaller and turns the pump a little faster.
On my 65 F250, I used too have a 352 but swapped in a 390 with 180* thermostat, (my engine always runs at 180-190 once warmed up, always) my temp sensor went out a few months back, and when i bought a new one, it would read around 205, I took it back saying it reads wrong, the parts guy didn't believe me but gave me another one anyway, (both listed for my year and model truck) the new one read just over 200 degrees. somethings wrong here in the replacement parts department on this. the third one i got reads 190 when I'm confident it should read around 180-185. I kept that sender in and now i just keep in the back of my mind that it reads a few degrees warm. If i were you, i would buy 2 or three of those senders and see what they all read if they're any different.
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