Projects Not worth saving... 1929 Model A Roadster AV8 Hotrod (build thread!?)

you are rockin this build bro, keep it up and best wishes. sololobo

 

The top of the Model A frame is flat. So, in essence your plywood work surface is substituting for a frame as you build/rebuild the body. I think I would bolt the subrails to the plywood using new Model A wooden body blocks. This will ensure that your body will sit right on a model A frame when you are finished cutting, welding, and beating on that old tin.

 

I like builds like these, that's probably why all mine start this far down. Glutten for punishment.

 

I used plywood too. Drew a grid on it to help keep things squ are. Also built it up with chunks of 2x4 , in the body mount areas, so I could fit the panels without unscrewing

 

Make sure you get the cowl in there before you lock the front crossmember into the subrails. It tapers and if you've got it all welded up you won't be able to squeeze the subrails into the cowl and you'll have to cut a slit in the crossmember to pinch it together.

Ask me how i know this.. haha.

 

Looking forward to watching this build, you build some wicked cars!

 

I started with about the same 29 body as you you'll be surprised on how much you can do with so so experience an a small budget,you got the car that's the best part.

 

The rougher it is to start with, the more creative license you have in the build and the more pride you can have in the result.

 

Keep it up. It can be done. My current A build (on here) started every bit as bad as yours. Was actually in a fire and is now a full roller and all back together body wise.
I had a lot of trouble when it came time for lower patch panels. Mine were so far gone and the replacements are not exact that finding a reference point tool the longest. I also learned a LoT about hammer and dolly work!
Anyway, keep it up.


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The patch panels are pretty crappy no matter who they come from; they all need love.
You can do it though!! I always start assembly from the rear X ember ( a fixed point) then you can fudge the cowl to make the doors work right ( the hardest thing on most "A"s) Once the doors are in position, you can line up the bottom swedge line ( detail strip, whatever) so everything lines through. In this pic, car was already fully clamped together to do this.

 

The jig you built on a plywood base is a good idea. Another way to check for square is to measure corner to corner from opposite sides ( top left to lower right, and top right to lower left) the dimension should be the same- if it's off , correct by half the amount ( if its off 1/2 " correct by 1/4 inch, adding to the lowest #). You made the right move going with a new sub frame- you always are better off with a good foundation!
Good luck- you can do it!
More pictures!!
Mike

 

Hey Crazy, how you making out bud?

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Hellooooooooooooooo!

 

Thanks for the pics. I'm doing something similar ,Except I have to start from the front. No 1/4s I think I will buy a new set of sub rails. I have 2 pretty good cowls, missing some parts, but doable.
thanks,
jim

 

Some great info here thanks for sharing just about to start myself

 

Good luck, I definitely am subscribing! About to do the same deal on my roadster.

 

Subscribed!

 

Subbed

 

Howdy HAMB! Three new subscribers in the last 30 days...I guess I’d better get back on this build.

So, some of you may beat me up for this, but my quarter panels are just too far gone...at least for MY metalworking skills. To be honest, they are what stalled the project out way back in 2017, and since then I have chased the love of my life, married her, bought, and then immediately did a full mechanical resto on my dream car (a non-HAMB-friendly Highland Green 1968 Mustang Fastback...with Torq Thrust wheels), built a custom quadravan, and just a few short weeks ago welcomed our baby daughter to the world...so I have been VERY busy! Just not on the roadster.

I did, however, finally finish the roadster’s power plant, and I will treat you all to a bunch of pictures of that process, as well as a brief run down of the build.


Measuring for clearances


Balancing rotating components with my homemade “jig”.


All ready to go...


Comp chromo 743 retainers turned down on my drill press with a file (before I had a lathe). Got the idea from fellow HAMB’er @Bored&Stroked.


Valve Job!


Checking valve clearance and installed height.


Installing Isky “Race” springs.


Checking con rod big-end bore.


Final assembly on rotating assembly.


Short block assembled.


Sanding on the repop Offy manifold before polishing.


Getting meticulous with a pair of Holley 94’s.


Oooh!


And there she is!

The mill for this roadster is a 1/8 over 1949 8BA flathead with EAB heads. It’s got an Isky “Full Race” cam that Ron Inskenderian (Ed’s son) ground for me himself, and it’s fully balanced. I did not relieve the block, but I did do some mild porting. I think it’s “real purdy” and it should go pretty good too!

Now, I can’t promise that I will finish this build, BUT I haven’t given up on it yet, and for me...that’s pretty good. I also have the Mustang in storage, my subrails back up on my table in the garage, AND I just ordered a whole bunch of sheet metal to get the ball rolling again on the body. Stay tuned for another update soon!

And Thank You for the Inspiration!!

 

Good to see you're back on the roadster !
How bad is your quarter panels ? Perhaps i might be interested on purchasing them, if you're willing to sell.

 

Thanks Forsman! I’ve got a for sale post here on the HAMB:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/28-29-roadster-quarter-panels.1219538/

***Update!***

Anyway, gang, I’m waiting on parts so there’s not much to report. I got the subrails mocked back up.



And with a deep desire to “advance” the project some, I nailed them together with some 1/8” pop-rivets.



My plan is to take the assembly out to my frame, verify that everything is going to land where it should, and then replace the pop-rivets one at a time with the final 3/16” rivets...as soon as those get here. I’m really torn between building the actual body on my table, or on the actual Model A frame, and I’d be open to suggestions on which way to go.

Since I’m rivet-building the car, I’m planning to get everything in a coat of primer before I assemble it. So I spent WAY too much time today welding up and re-drilling the majority of the holes where the “panel below decklid” meets up with the rear crossmember (because only the middle two lined up), and then getting both of those pieces coated.





It’s REALLY tempting to build the car from the back to the front, since those parts all bolt together, but everything I have read says to build from the cowl backwards, so that’s what I’m going to do...

I hope that decision doesn’t end up biting me.

 

Just me and I haven't built one, but IF the subrails fit the frame nicely, and IF you rivet it all together and it still fits the jig and the frame, I'd say build it on the jig if that is easier.
As far as easier, IF it works both ways, you might want to cut 'windows' in the jig for reaching. You can add wood brackets to hold body sections also. Don't forget the webbing and blocks that are between the frame and sub rails, and that shims are often used for final fitting.
One of the commenters mentioned he started from the back, then moved the cowl to 'fit' the doors. Again, not me but you could pop rivet to try it out and weld when everything is right.

BTW, love the motor!

 

Built a table with add on legs with wheels...
plywood is in 3 sections... center one can slide out so you can sit, kneel, or stand inside the table top...
stacks easy when not used... the grey tubes are to support the grill/hood if needed to align the panels...
drilled 1/8" holes [4 each panel] through the plywood and into the steel table frame, dropped nails into the holes so i could mark the body center and have it stay there...
.

 

Thank you! And I hear you on the IF part...I think that what I’m probably going to end up doing is building the body on the frame. After all the hard work of building the table, I know that probably sounds kind of dumb, but it seems like it’s going to be a lot easier to bolt the subrails down and build the body in place. Also, I had this idea that my table would be repurposed into the floor of a garden shed when I’m done with it, so I don’t want to go cutting access holes. Haha!

What a genius contraption! Thank You. I wish I had seen this before I built my table.

***Update!***

Well, sadly gents, not much exciting to report yet. Still waiting on parts (darn this Covid), so I’ve just kind of been cleaning and painting things. I did some work on this upper firewall piece which was totally hammered (I should have taken a before pic):



Not bad for 92 year old sheet metal. The backside was so pitted that I was chasing pin holes for the better part of an afternoon. But when I uncovered the stamped date in the lower driver’s side corner, I knew I couldn’t replace it. Do you think Ford was the one who stamped this panel!?



It’s a different size stamp than they used on the frames. But it kinda makes you wonder, if not Ford, then who?

Also, get this. I had totally ordered a repop instrument panel, and it backordered. When I went out and dug this one out of parts pile and saw that it polished up so nice, I was actually kind of relieved that the repop was on backorder. I don’t know, there’s just something cool about old chrome.



And yes, I’m running a stock tank, and the stock instruments, though I would like to add a tachometer, and possibly an oil pressure and temperature gauge. I’ve got to find something that will compliment the stock pieces in a very Spartan interior. I’ve got this old Sun tach that I would LOVE to run, but it only goes up to 3,500 rpm...if anybody’s got a recommendation on a shop that could re-work this to read 5,500 or 6,000 rpm, that would be GREAT!!



Anyway, my pallet of replacement sheet metal was due in today, which would have been perfect because I had the day off, but now it’s delayed. And that means that I’m going to have to juggle picking it up whilst avoiding the boss during normal working hours. So THAT should be fun...but at least the next update should be a little bit more exciting!

Stay tuned...

 

That’s a beautiful tach! I hope you can find a way to use it.

 

Those stamped #s on the lower left are the tank's date of manufacture,
the tank could be changed over the years...
and the #s are day/month/year/ and only on '28-'29s.

 

I had no idea. Thanks Sloppy Jalopies! The tank itself is in amazing shape.

 

Still slow and steady at it over here. Sorry this part isn’t more exciting...

My Brookville stuff showed up; some of it incorrect and some of it damaged, so that was kind of anti-climactic. I’m working with a great vendor though, and they are “handling it”. Once we’ve got everything straightened out, I’ll post up the info on them; they’ve really just been awesome, and saved me a ton of money over buying direct from Brookville.



I also stumbled upon an AWESOME vendor for hardware. I say “stumble”, but you are probably all well aware of Mike’s A-Ford-able...I got nearly every single bolt for this car for about $100! When you consider how many trips to the hardware store, only to find I need 6 and they only have 3...just buying the stuff from a vendor is a HUGE savings. They also had the cowl and belt-line welting, as well as the body block set, so now I can mock the subrails up on the chassis.



Beyond that, I’ve just been on rust abatement and sheet metal prep...





Not bad for a 92 year old firewall, right!?



Luckily the cowl brace/A-pillar/dash rail section is made from some really thick steel. The bottom two inches are a little thin, and I’ve still got some holes to chase around with the welder, but it’s going to be salvageable, and it should look just about perfect when it’s done. I’m about a a half day into it in this picture (sand blast, straighten, DA).

At the rate I’m going, I’ve got about one more weekend in prepping/priming my original panels (not counting the doors which I’m doing the very last). I’m priming everything (acid etch followed by Rustoleum RedOx prior to assembly. I’m hoping this decision doesn’t bite me; I know that riveted fitments are probably stronger with bare steel contact, but everything was pitted so badly when I freed the original joints, and this replacement steel isn’t nearly as good as the stuff Henry Ford used in 1929, so I want a layer of protection. I considered seam selling everything, but at that point, why rivet build in the first place...it just won’t look original. Anyway, I’m keeping the primer thin...and I may still seam seal in a few spots where you won’t see it...

I guess I’ve sort of officially unofficially decided that I’m going to update this thread weekly. This will keep me accountable to the build’s progress. I feel like you all are probably due for one more “boring” update before things actually start to get interesting.
So...thanks for sticking it out.

 

Alright, I’m maybe a bit stuck, and if anybody wants to weigh-in on this, it would be MUCH appreciated.

I have this chassis that I’m using as the basis for the chassis that will ultimately go under the roadster:



It’s pretty basic, and it needs some major work to be “right” for this project, BUT it’s at least straight, and it was boxed and stepped decently. It is also already setup for a 28/29 body and an 8BA flathead, but...

After measuring the frame it appears that the cowl mounts aren’t in the right spot. They seem to be moved rearward approximately 3-1/4”. Which is weird, because when I had the awful “Rat Rod” coupe body that was on this frame when I bought it, it seemed to be in roughly the correct spot on the frame (rear wheels lined up). The measurement from the front cowl hole in the frame top rail to the leading hole on the rear cowl bracket, on THIS frame, is 10-3/4”.

So, I went trying to do some digital archeology; I dug through all my pictures of that car when I had it together, and I found and “enhanced” a picture of the inner cowl that shows the mounting bolts...



Do they look like they’re too far back? Like 3” too far!? Because the holes that go through the top of the frame for the front cowl mount, and first subrail cross channel mount appear to be in the correct place...but I no longer have the coupe body to compare to.

My concern in all of this is the following:

My plan had evolved into measuring my frame, comparing those measurements to info I could find on the net, and then transferring THOSE hopefully simpatico measurements to my body jig. Then mounting the subrails, to the body blocks, through the frame welting, right to my jig table. Now that I can’t trust MY frame measurements, I have to rely on the net. And I have read quite a few posts here on the HAMB suggesting that the Westcotts frame diagram that everybody uses is “inaccurate”, at best.

And, right off the bat, the 7-3/4” dimension that they list for the distance from the front cowl mount hole to the leading hole on the rear cowl mount bracket, doesn’t jive with the roughly 8-1/2” that I’m measuring on my new wood body block kit. So, to just build the roadster body on my jig, as was my original plan...confidence is not high that these are the measurements to use.



Anybody have any thoughts, or know of a more accurate frame diagram for a 28/29 roadster?


Thanks,

Casey

PS - I also found this diagram on the HAMB, but it seems even less accurate...