My 1936 Ford Pickup creaks and groans when it twists into driveways, etc. Is this normal on all old frames due to their cold rivet construction and 80 years of whatever accumulates in the frame joints? I was told these frames were engineered to flex, but have not confirmed that. I have a new TCI front end welded into the original 36 frame. My frame channel is boxed around the engine. I added in a TCI transmission mount and new side motor mounts for a 327 SBC. I changed the back suspension to parallel leaf springs. All of these new parts are properly lubricated. I greased the leafs of my rear springs. If I had this to do over again, I'm wondering if I should have ordered a new frame to go with the TCI suspension? Any solutions to quieting where these noises are coming from? Penetrating oil at all the rivet joints?
I think just boxing it part way is what is making it groan, putting more flex on the non boxed part. Gary
Agree about the partial boxing being part of the culprit. Now it only flex's in the unboxed section and is a more pronounced flex than you'd have if open. You've changed the dynamics with unequal stress.
No kidding. I'm not there yet, but feeling it already I will look again at all connections and moving parts to slather some more grease or other lubricant where possible. Maybe lithium grease where I can apply it, and maybe something like Aerokroil as a penetrating oil that "creeps" into less accessible areas.
Weld all the connections that are riveted now. If that don't stop it, it's not the frame that groans.
What transmission is in it now, did you modify the centre X-member and if so by how much, photos? The open 'C' frame was pretty forgiving and originally designed to twist laterally along the vehicle central axis (Only marginally and within reason) with strength being in the centre X-member. The original front and rear suspension were buggy but now the loads have gone from the centre of the front and rear members with single springs to each frame rail with IFS and parallel leafs. As you go in a driveway you load one side of the suspension up and unload the other. When I did my 35 Chevy I reinforced the centre X-member area to reduce lateral twisting. When I added a similar stout X-member to a friends 42 Chevy PU, I reinforced the X-member to the frame with simple plates to strengthen things and reduce the torsional twisting.
Seems to me every old car I've owned made noises. Even those I've built and modified. Creak, rattle, bump, vibrate, squeak and ....... Ya can try to get them tight but totally tight? If ya want a seamless ride, get a new car.
My manual transmission is a Muncie that came with a 1968 327 L79 from a wrecked Corvette (in 1969). From 1970, I left this truck in storage for the next 42 years. Current upgrades started with new suspension, brakes & steering from about 3 years ago. To set the engine angle right relative to the rear end, I removed part of the center of the original X-member and replaced it with a TCI transmission mount designed for this purpose. Until I can snap some better photos tomorrow, these two can show a little. Where the tail pipes come together at the most narrow point, you can see a curved transmission mount hanging down in a lighter color. The cross-members to the left and right of that, that are perpendicular to the side rails are the original steel. I don't know how important those are and the metal is relatively thin compared to the main frame rails and X-members. Rear shocks went onto the front edge of the original crossmember that previously held the buggy cross-spring. You can see how the parallel leaf springs were attached to the side rails. At freeway speeds, it rides flat and hard like a go-kart. It corners flat and easy at high speeds. I'm tempted to replace the front coil springs with something a little softer, maybe 275's, so I don't feel every little road bump through the steering wheel. As you suggest, I suspect the most noise might be coming from diagonal twists. But I don't know and that's why I started this thread to draw upon all of the collective experience here. I'm enjoying all the responses and I am pondering it all. I have never removed my cab from the frame. This could also contribute to the creeks and groans.
Hell I'm only 70 and I creak and groan and my joints pop and rattle. But then my two years younger than me 48 pickup has it's share of creaks and groans and pops and snaps due to the construction of the frame. I thought that was part of the nature of the beast.
Give the frame a close inspection at all the riveted joints, usually if the rivet is loose or there's a crack; you should see a sign of the movement. Fresh rust powder bleed, cracked paint, etc. Be sure to look at the body mounts and wood blocks as 46caddy mentioned, they are also a likely source of noise. Sent from my Nexus 5X using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Those pickups had wood blocks between the frame and the cab and bed. They are a great place to creak. Maybe some welting between the hard surfaces and the wood might dampen the sound? Plus, the truck might have other places with metal on metal that vibrates/creaks, like the tailgate, doors, hood and latches, etc.
You are going to have to follow up all the suggestions. Unless people are there with you to look and listen themselves, all they can do is suggest.
I'm pretty sure those fasteners for the cab and bed have not been touched for about 80 years. I think I remember seeing some spring bolts attaching the bed or cab, and some other kinds of specialized body fasteners. I've seen the wood support blocks mentioned, and I know new webbing material is available from parts suppliers. Anyone know if I can satisfactorily clean and replace these cab and bed fasteners and webbing from under the truck without taking the whole damn thing apart? For now, I'm focusing on putting things together and running smoothly so I can continue moving forward and have some fun using the truck as my daily driver. I prefer to avoid another major disassembly at this moment, if it can be avoided. When I get to the point of preparing for a final paint job, I may strip the whole thing back down to the frame for one last round of improvements and final assembly. Realistically, that is not in the near foreseeable future. Too many other things on still on the list waiting for time and money to try to button up first. I'm still targeting fundamentals. Doors are tight and fit well. No hood yet. Fenders are solid. My tailgate is made from mahogany and fastened into place with screws. No tailgate chains to rattle. The creaks and groans seem to be more systemic, coming generally from the undercarriage. I'm not concerned with little loose rattles, of which there are few or none. If I hear a rattle, I tighten it or replace what needs replacing. My cab interior seems pretty well insulated from tin-can type vibration with tar-like sound deadener I brushed on in the late 60's. Door panels are padded with upholstery. No door windows or window mechanisms in place yet. Yes, indeed. I am appreciating all of these suggestions. I will explore it all. If typical normal rebuild projects can attain solid, quiet performance with original frames, then I have a goal and hope for the future. If most other rebuilds still creak and groan, then I won't worry about it. What I DON'T know, is if a stock 1936 frame with upgraded suspension is a mismatch for a 350hp engine. I don't know if an original frame should be a structural matter of concern. I'm still learning many things as I feel my way forward. I'm very pleased with the progress so far. This truck is quick, and zips up to 100 mph with a couple blinks of the eye and some scintillating goosebumps. It steers, corners and stops nicely. I want to do my best to make it safe and dependable. There are many tips and tricks for me yet to discover. It's a fun and seemingly never-ending work in progress.
I was going to say, most likely the body and bed making the noise but I see this has already been covered. An old trick is to mix light oil like WD40 with some graphite and spray it around body mounts and anywhere you suspect parts to rub and squeak. They used to use banana oil.
Don't feel bad, a lot of the 60's and 70's Ford pickups creak and groan too, and the boxes don't line up with the cab anymore. A lot of the farm trucks around here tended to wind up slightly sagging or twisted in the middle. As stated before tho, Boxing fixes all that.
Old cars creak and groan. It is probably a combination of riveted cross members and bushing and springs. grease what can be greased, make sure that nothing is broken and enjoy the creaks and groans.it just means that you are not driving a late model econobox.
let me see if i have this correct...the body blocks and mounts are the source of the noise. this noise happens when he enters a driveway at an angle and not while driving normally. so the frame is not trying to twist at all?
I seem to be on the same project schedule as the OP. ....and 42 years later I started on the front suspension (!) I love long term ownership and happy to hear that you have come back to your pickup and enjoying it. Almost as happy to hear you've put a rip snorting 327 and Muncie 4 speed- a personal favorite combo and current match to what's in my 64 Malibu wagon. I assume all my old cars creak and make noise-- I just don't hear well enough to be bothered by it Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Maybe late to the party on this, but you can expect your frame to flex more than normal because of three things. 1, You fitted independent front suspension in place of the transversely sprung stock setup. 2, You fitted parallel rear suspension in place of the stock setup. 3, You weakened the central x member area when you fitted the other trans. The cab is only mounted solidly at the central part. it has springs at the front and rear. It does not really do anything to stiffen up the frame. the bed offers very little torsional resistance to frame flexing. So, in summary as it is not surprising you have squeaks and rattles. Whether or not you want to try and improve it is up to you. The choices range from do nothing and live with it, understanding why it is like it is, right through to a complete new street rod frame, n a sliding scale of work and cost. Personally I'd leave alone (unless inspection shows something actually loose or broken). Mart.
if you jack up one end or corner will it make the noise? if so get a buddy jack it up and down and you try to find the noise.
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