FUCK. FUCK. Some background. The motor I took out was a '76 or '77. It was on its way to grenading, so I got a '70 and had it rebuilt and balanced. The starter will not engage the flywheel. It is too far away. I had two flywheels. A '76 and a '70. I don't know which one Opel (machine shop) balanced but the 76 starter doesn't work. I went to autozone and got a '70 starter and a '87. Aside from some minute differences, the offset is still the same. Essentially I need a starter with a bigger gear on the bendix. Anyone have any ideas? I'm pretty much screwed for tonight. Going to call Opel in the morning.
There are different tooth counts, I'm not sure what they are but that's probably your problem, wrong flywheel.
OK found this paragraph on a truck site I think the first setence may be what has you messed up- FLYWHEEL/BELLHOUSING/STARTER MOTOR The starter motor, flywheel, bellhousing, and torque converter (or clutch) are a matched set. V8's in F-series came with 168 tooth flywheels which are larger and harder to fit around the firewall. The 157 tooth flywheel from passenger cars is smaller and easier to fit. It is important to check your flywheel and starter for proper engagement before installing the engine.
I'm not really sure what you need maybe an expert will chime in here, I seem to remember there only being a few part #'s for sbf starters up until the EFI days.
On late model 5.0's the starters are the same for manual or auto but on the earlier motors they are different. Levis Classic had something similar happen when he was getting the sedan running. Check out his post: F*ckin thrash failure!! Damn starter Maybe you've got the wrong starter, but If you ended up having to use the smaller 157 tooth flywheel with that motor and you have the big 164 tooth bellhousing you might need to change flywheels Gus
The manager at Auto Zone told me I wrote the nicest nasty letter after the third starter -- or was it the fourth -- wouldn't fit. My mechanic finally got it to fit but it took all the shims from three starter kits. Point of my story (other than I don't go to Auto Zone for starters, or anything else improtant ) is check the numbers, etc. for yourself. Do you (or they) have your original starter so you can compare? Box might say right starter, but starters may not agree
You have the wrong flywheel. Or you have the wrong bellhousing. Either way, they've got to match or the starter won't work. There is no starter you can buy that will fix this problem. You have to change the bellhousing or the flywheel. Sucks, I know.
Sounds to me like you have a 157 tooth flywheel in there. You might need a 164 toother. Lakewood bellhousings have an extra starter bolt hole so you can move the starter over to the smaller flywheel (157). Make sure you have the right starter for whichever tranny your running.( standard or auto) In any event, the combo you have is mismatched. Sucks, I know......good luck Bernie
One other thing. Ford uses a plate between the flywheel and the block. This plate helps index the starter and if it's not in there, the starter can be far enough off to give trouble. Don't ask me how I know--- lessons learned the hard way.
If you have a c4 trans ,which I assume you do, it sounds like the bell housing on the trans needs to be changed to a 157. or the med one. there are 3 size bell housing and all parts must match. mustang 2 has a 144 tooth, mid size fords, have the 157, trucks and later aod have 164. the bell housing ,flex plate and shim, goes behind flywheel, next to block,all must match.
That happened to me with my 289/4 speed mustang and as it turned out the good folks at auto zone sold me a starter for an automatic tranny. Starter snout length was different and wasn't allowing the gear to go deep enough to engage the flywheel. after comparing several starters I finally found the right one.(longer snout) Took it home, bolted it up and worked fine.
Thanks everyone. Bought a new flywheel today. Motor comes back out tomorrow. And only 4 days until we leave for Texas...
wow... I had a similar thing happen with my galaxie- I ended up with the right starter from Lionheart here on the hamb... for me it was a starter problem-- but it was chewing my flywheel. I ended up putting a new ring gear on the flywheel just to be safe the last time around... Hope you get it worked out- Tuck
Not sure what the others have said here but here is what the problem is most likely. I did the same thing... If you have a auto matic then make sure the starter is for a automatic. The starters for a manual (3 speed) and automatic (C4 or C6 are different and will EAT the hell out of the flywheel.
What a weekend! New flywheel did not match up to the B&M torque converter. My tranny is actually a C5... oddball. It is 11.4 and 26 spline instead of 10.5. HotRodChassis and Kansas just found a shop that has the right one in stock and are going to save my ass and start putting it back together until I can get done what I need to get done at work and blow out of here. Still hopeful to fire this thing up tonight. 2 days until we leave for Texas...
There are several possible (wrong) combinations for starters, bells, and flywheels on a SBF. Here's a couple of things I learned the hard way: 1. 157 or 164 teeth flywheel. Must match with the bellhousing and motor plate. Using a 157 tooth wheel with a 164 bell means no engagement. 2. short or long nose starter. There are two differnt noses on the SBF starter. The long nose starter is 2 3/8" from the end to the mounting face and is used on automatics (all years), 4 speeds, and 5 speed manuals. The short nose starter is 2" from end to mounting face and is for three speeds. A short nose starter with an auto flexplate will not engage. A long nose starter on a three speed will grind against the flywheel teeth. 3. there's a goofy, one-off Mustang II 148 tooth flywheel that will not work with any other bellhousing except the MII. 4. Early 289/302/(pre-81) and all 351W flywheels have a 28oz imbalance; later 5.0 engines have a 50oz imbalance. 240/250/300 inline six flywheels have a zero imbalance and are otherwise identical to the 157/164 flywheels, but vibrate like a mother if you put one on a V8, and vice versa. 5. You really should use the engine plate. The starter will fit without it, but the hole in the plate is what properly indexes the starter to the flywheel. Without it there's a little wiggle room and the starter may be noisier and not last as long. Hope this helps a little.
That's pretty in depth mstangsix, thanks for sharing! Are we taking bets on how many miles my car will have on it before we leave for Texas?
Good luck with the starter sitch Django. Sorry I have no advice but Im runnin a 302 in my 23T so this post has been very informative. Did you find a bass for your gig in Austin? Have a safe trip and hope to see ya at the Roundup!
AND with respects to the Mustang II only flywheel and bellhousing for the automatic...you also need the proper reshaped oil pan(!) to allow the starter to sink in far enough to fit up to the small bellhousing! I just hammered the 351w pan inward to make it all work because I wasn't in the mood to pull the damn engine out again, considering it was the most exasperating engine "swap" I had ever done...and besides...the correct 302w pan won't fit to a 351w anyway. It leaked...the car wasn't much faster. I went Chevy swaps...my blood pressure stabilized instantly. Hmmmm....Is that why Chevy is the "Heartbeat of America"???
I did this once a long time ago - struggled with starters for a long time. The bolt holes in the starter are oversized to allow the plate to index the starter. I went through several starters (got creative at making sure the old one wouldn't work at the chain store's tester so the lifetime warranty would be good). Also cracked a few nose cones with all the "adjustments" - I later tried to put a plate in w/o pulling the tranny by cutting it in half at the dowels, loosening the bellhousing bolts & sliding in the pieces from the top & bottom. That worked slightly better. Eventually, I pulled the trans & replaced the plate... I've made hybrid pans by cutting the rear seal area out of a 351W pan & welding it into a 302 pan in a pinch - did it twice when I couldn't quickly come up with the pan I needed. Works OK - PITA though...
MustangSix summed it up b4 I could read this. Do you need a extra Flex Plate or two for a C4? How about a Extra Bell housing or two. I seem to have extras. Oh yeah, do a search. This similar question has been asked about a year ago. I learned a lot through my own mistakes. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23554&&showall=1 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22840&highlight=flexplate
check the flywheel & make sure the bolt pattern on the converter matches the flywheel. The larger flywheel uses a larger converter. Also, make SURE the input shaft on the trans matches the converter, early c4 had a small shaft, later had a larger shaft.It is possible to install the big converter with the small shaft....it is just small enough to be installed & beat the hell out of the input hub in the converter..................don't ask
When you get here I will have lotsa extra Lonestar in the back of the truck with your name on it. Just think, you won't have to make up any of the story about your trip.
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