Hot Rods The damb painter won't paint

Get a car trailer/truck, a buddy or 2 (in case the situation goes pear-shaped) ,go there and pick up your ride. Park around the corner from his shop/house/grandmothers/boyfriends house (out of view , but you can see when he turns up). Be prepared to sleep in the truck if neccessary, or stay in a motel close-by. Usually all the excuses and BS dissappear when they are confronted in person. Do not leave until you have your car, plus all the bits. Prepare a list of all the parts you gave him and tick them off as they are loaded on the truck.
Even it is 3:30 AM, get your stuff. I had to do this once, with a Gorilla sized friend along,
the bloke we confronted was very accomodating, given the circumstances. He thought he would never be found, but he thought wrong.

 

I don't get it. With all these reports of cars ending up in "Paint Jail", rodders still pay their hard earned money up front and continue to get screwed. A reputable shop doesn't need up front money. Pay as you go is the only way to prevent getting jerked around.

Gary

 

This deal went bad,go get your car before this shit show makes you stroke out. As stated before if he does it now it will be a half ass,hurry up ,cover it up crap job. Just fight to get back as much money and supplies you can get and then walk away . Do it fast and do it now so that its over with. In the end you will find the right guy .

 

In addition if he has no paper work or a signed invoice by you it is your car he has no claim to it. The LAW is on your side on this one.

 

Old bill, I to used to do all my painting but the fumes bother me, yes I have had a friend recover property and requested the present of the local sheriff, you will need to prove your the owner ( title should be proof enough) where are you located?


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this guy sounds like an amateur. I know a guy who would have sucked at least another couple grand out of you before he stopped working on your car and started ignoring your texts, emails and calls.... plus he would have sold a few parts from it while you were waiting.

 

...people here speak of the law, well the law does not care, this is a civil matter.

 

Same song, umpteenth verse. This is why I learned to do paint and body myself. Go get what's left of your stuff.

 

He has already spent the up front money and is obviously never going to paint your car. Cut your losses and get the car before it disappears. In the future NEVER PAY MORE THEN THE COST OF MATERIALS up front. Lots of good to great painters with drug and alcohol problems that do not have the cash for materials. Better yet, you buy the materials and after the car is painted pay for the labor.

 

I used to work for a couple body shops. In one, there was an unfinished repair of a customized early Camaro (fiberglass flares, etc). After I'd been there a few months, I asked about it. Answer was: that was supposed to be done by the guy I replaced, & the other guys there didn't want to touch it. I finished it. The other, had another long term project sitting there. When I asked about that one, answer was: It had already been paid for, so if we took the time to work on it, there wouldn't be any money coming in that week. How the hell do these guys stay in business? When I worked out of my shop at home, I tried to let customers know it was going to be a long term project, because I had a full time job, & just did this on the side. They rarely listened. I was never fast enough. I don't work for anybody but me anymore.

 

Having been where you are, I have trouble even asking body and paint guys about painting my stuff.
I know how much work it is, and I know many of them feel like they underbid the job part way through and quit working on it. Consequently, a lot of my cars have stayed in primer or whatever as long as I own them.
I have painted several cars over the years with good results but as I have gotten older, I suffer from the same discomfort from the fumes and sanding dust that you do making it an unattractive task. I have three cars at the body and paint stage, so I bought myself a turbine system and I'm looking at full body suits and masks.
Us old dogs can learn new tricks; get your car back, do some homework and do it yourself - you won't believe what a huge sense of accomplishment it will be. Unless you are trying for a Riddler Award or something, you can do it just as well as that knucklehead that hides behind his Grandma. There's lots of info and talented help here on the HAMB.
http://www.eastwood.com/paints/paint-equipment/respirators.html

 

Unfortunately the money is probably lost. Best thing you can do is grab the car and do it yourself or higher one of the other guys.

Finding an honest body man is about as hard as finding and honest customer. Sadly in your post you say you had several guys look at it but felt they were too expensive. Those were probly the honest guys who were telling you the truth. Paint work is expensive and takes a lot of time to do properly. The brake down around here is as follows.

Media blast. 1000-1500
Epoxy body 15-20 hrs (sand &clean)
Flatwork 50hrs +-
Spray poly 15-20hrs
Highbuild primer 20-30hrs
Spray 15hrs (2 batches)
Wetsand and buff 20hrs

+- 150hrs @ 50$hr 15k
15K + 2k P&M, 1500 media blast
is just shy of 20k.

Problem is when your honest prospective clients go find someone who is cheaper, then get soaked and jerked around, get poor work done then go back to the guy who was too expensive and ask him to do it even cheaper because they lost a 1/4 of their budget to a hack. Sadly this is an all too familiar story to honest bodymen and shop owners.

This happend to one of my customers. He paid 4.5k to a guy. I ended up cutting out all of the other guys hack work (he welded in less rusty panels) replaced all the other guys work and fabricated several patches all for about 1000$ less than the "expert" the guy originally went too.






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Sorry for your pain. I have been there. Bet he was the cheapest!

 

Pick it up or break his legs and pick it up.Seriously I've been there it sucks, last project I actually showed the guy I had the cash , but he wasn't getting it till the job is done. Not sure if it helped but a job he originally promised in a week only took 2.5 months.
Unfortunately this is common for painters. Idk how you can run a business like that but they do.

 

I have to go along with the choir here and say you would probably be better off getting your ride back at this point and going elsewhere. Sorry to have to say so, but that is my honest opinion. The guy hiding from an up front paying customer is not good, and if there are issues later on, I imagine he will do the same then. You have been far more than fair and honest here, and deserve the same in return.

 

Seen this once or a hundred times, very common in the hot rod business, regardless of whether its body or chassis work. DON'T pay up front! If you want, pay for materials, but never for labour, a guy who wants your money up front either is a hacker or unable to manage his life in such a way as to get through the job without needing the money for something unrelated to your job. Both types you don't want to deal with, a lesson some of us never learn, fact is, regular body shops make their living doing commercial work and prefer not to work by the hour, not enough money in it.
So....up springs the backyard guy who promises you the world and doesn't deliver, because bodymen are hard to find, we take chances on the guy and he spends his life borrowing from peter to pay paul, never giving you what you paid for.
Go get your car, chalk it up to your own stupidity for dealing with him, and find a guy who will give you references and show you his work, pay him when he's done and get on with driving your car before you die. It's only money, you can get more, but you'll only get the car on the road once, get on with it. Take a friend and a couple baseball bats with you. Don't use them, but make it clear that you might.........

 

Make sure you have the ball and the ball gloves with you.
You're intent is inviting him to play baseball, not intending or threatening the mash bash and dash

 

As an aside, I have a co-worker who is looking at 25+ years right now for inflicting bruises on a guy with his fists while retrieving his property from the guy's home. Felony Assault/Agravated Robbery are two of the things he is charged with, while out on 100k bail. He will be going to prison. I doubt our OP here would do such a thing, but others might consider it. My co-worker is 23 years old and his life is now screwed.

 

Oldbill:
If there's *any* way possible for you to take 31Vic up on his offer to paint your car, I'd do it so fast, you'd need lifetime chiro adjustment from the speed of your head spinning, wrenching your back/ass out from speed-yanking the body out of that "shop" & slapping leather to keep 31Vic happy. He's posted examples of his work on here before. I'd be thrilled/overjoyed if I could do 1/10 as well as he does.
Seriously.
Marcus...

 

If you think you will ever build a second rod then learn to paint and be satisfied with less than perfect. If this is your build of a lifetime and your looking for a show car then get ready to spend some money and double whatever you think. Even if you take it to a shop that specializes in hot rods, I can tell you from the pictures that your car is not ready for paint. There are pinholes throughout the metal and they along with any added or straightened metal must be covered and sanded several times to get it straight. If your pocket book can't handle the cost then again learn by experience and consider something more in tune with a true hot rod look. Hey, if it runs great, you will enjoy it just as much....maybe more as you don't get upset at picking up a little gravel here and there.
As for those backyard painters.....there is a reason they don't have a legitimate shop with employees doing the work. Most of them dream of having a shop and may be good craftsmen but they don't have what it really takes to run a business.....time and money management. They work when their wallet gets empty. Unfortunately you don't get to see their wallet.....but any request for up front money is a clear you need to run as fast as you can. Signed....Ben Ther

 

I can't figure people out these days. I called a guy in March about trimming some trees. It took him 2 weeks to show up for an estimate. He gave me a price that was less than it would cost to rent a manlift to do it myself. I told him I'd have the cash waiting for him. He also talked to the neighbors to try to line up more work. He took down a tree at my neighbors house in June and stopped in at the end of the day to tell me he would be doing mine the following day. He never showed up. Near the end of July he called to ask if I still wanted it done and I told him yes and the cash was waiting for him. We had lots of rain in August and he called saying he was going to do it but figured the ground will be too wet. I told him there is sand at least 50 feet deep under my lot so it drains fast. I haven't heard from him since then. I try to call but it goes to voicemail and his voice mail is full. I saw his truck go by last week but didn't hear anything from him.

 

tree guy must be running a body shop on the side

 

D.I.Y.I learned to do paint &BW in the mid 80s only because I knew I couldn't afford to pay a pro.I'm happy with my work!

 

Going to get myself in trouble with painters, I think it's the paint fumes, without exception, EVERY painter I have dealt with, and I'm talking 50 years of experience,10/12 different shops at least, some were friends/acquaintances from racing or rodding, ALWAYS some BS story, never done on time, (have friends, cars/Hot Rods sat 1/2/3 years) $$$ was always much more than quoted, and or paint jobs, just like mine, I know how to achieve, dirt, runs, over spray, fish eyes, orange peel, etc. IMO, Mine were equal or better than the pro shops, I know there are good painters out there, see some beautiful cars at shows, I just never had the good fortune of doing business with one of them. Have had insurance work done through the years with reasonable results, not show quality paint jobs, but acceptable dailey driver. Thinking that's the answer, insurance work is there bread and butter work that keeps them in business. 0 luck with race cars/motorcycle/ Hot Rods..... I would have been happy to get a paint job equal to insurance work jobs, I've received.

 

wicarnet has it right. Most shops would rather replace a fender on a Toyota Corolla then get involved with an old car paint job. Too much preparation work and lots of unforeseen problems that arise once the job is started. A friend mine operates a one man body shop an is an exceptional painter. During the time he has run his shop he has been sued twice. Both were over rust repairs that reappeared over time. As a result he will no longer get involved with rust repair. Fortunately he makes exceptions for his friends.

Gary

 

Just like you say,,, but ,,,

There are multi million dollar estimating software programs for insurance guys.

Run any restoration job thru that very same software and every one will come out as a totaled vehicle. A price so high that nobody would pay it. So when your car goes into a shop it's nothing more than a financial exercise and rightfully treated as a second class project within their walls.

It's pretty easy to quote to the min how long it takes to order a fender, how long you'll be waiting for it, unload it off the truck, cut the box up, prep and paint it, bolt it on the car, down to the min. How much of that corresponds remotely to a restoration job? One aspect and that is the "gun time" and just that.

You can't compare the two at all except what happens in the spray booth .

 

There are some ethical and hard working bodymen/painters out there.......I consider myself to be one of them. My personal and professional reputation is my livelihood.

Get references. Talk to actual customers. Look at previous work done by any shop in question.

 

Here's another thing that I guess most guys don't consider when making any comparison between collision shop who work for the insurance companies and a restoration project.
99% of restoration work is someone's toy and personally funded out of pocket. Every dollar is earned money coming out of a one persons pocket and that makes every red cent extremely personal.

This might get too deep for some of us but that doesn't make it any less true.
80% or more of a collision shop's work is funded by huge corporations and now it's no longer personal it's just money. The other 20% is deductibles and self pay or non insurance payed work.

The insurance adjusters job is to make sure that the insurance company pays the correct amount to the shop needed to reverse the damage and make the lein holder whole and to OK supplements to the original estimate. Adjusters are generally fair but they watch nickels and you'll need to ask for them. The insurance corporations have a huge bureaucratic regulatory organizations on the state level making them hold to a certain set of standards. Standards for both the payer of premiums and the payee of claims, it's a giant but unavoidable conflict of interest and the thus need for regulation. The insurance companies have a fiduciary duty to protect the finance companies (aka banks) interest in the damaged property, in this case it's auto accidents. These big ass banks hold the insurance companies feet to the fire, and the insurance companies drive the collision shops.

The insurance companies have a genuine interest in the well being and continued operation of collision shops. Since The auto finance companies mandate that the note holder carry and pay insurance on the financed vehicle with the finance company listed as insured, in other words, that the insurance industry be funded for the banks protection. The insurance companies love the banks for this and in return they NEED an entity to help them secure correction to damaged property owned by the bank, the collision shops. The collision shop MUST gear itself to sink up with the workings of and set by the insurance companies. It's sails like a well oiled machine. A restoration job in that atmosphere is like a pile of shit in the middle of the floor that nobody wants to pick up and everyone bumps into each other to go around.

A decent restoration shop is lucky to have a secretary, let alone a purchasing agent, an estimator, a job expediter and all the other BIG money institutional things and salaries that make a collision shop humm along. Felling the need to compare restoration work to collision work is like trying to compare an Amtrak commuter train to a motorcycle. Sure both can get people across town.

 

I've been in your shoes with a couple different painters, and these guys are right. Once the car sits there longer than a month or so, they generally have no intention of doing anything more than trying to milk you out of whatever money they can con you out of. It's a game to see how gullible you are. I actually walked into one body shop with an aluminum baseball bat after being jerked around and milked for money. The owner told me several times that he needed more money after paying 50% of the quoted job up front, yet the vehicle sat untouched for over a year. The kicker? The body was done, sealed, primed and blocked before I even dropped it off. He only had to mask it, wipe it down with Prep-sol, and shoot it. He threatened a mechanic's lien, and told me he could get a title and sell it for more than the amount of money he was asking me for!

When I walked in with the bat, he thought I was coming to assault him with it. I pointed to the other cars in the shop and told him I'd rather just give him a whole lot more work to do. I ended up paying a lot of money for a year's storage. Just count your losses and go get your car.

 

I've been through this before, I took my stock '48 Ford to a shop back in the '80s. It had been bead blasted and cleaned, I gave him fitted patch panels for it plus some money up front. I spent a year and a half going to his shop every weekend and on vacations. I was worried about him closing shop and my car disappearing, so I had some one run his plate number so I would have his home address. He was doing insurance work first and any thing else and letting me hang. He finally did the car it came out beautiful but it was stress full. I've had supposed friends that were in the body and fender business but they screwed me. When some one tells me they're in that profession I'm leery of them, I know it's not fair to all in that business, but when you get screwed around what are you to think.