Features Original steel verses repro, is really repro really cheaper ?

Hey Guys.
A surplus of down time between jobs "the joys of self employment" coupled with miserable weather keeping me from working on my projects has got me thinking about a thing or two so I thought I would throw out an idea or two, so here goes......

Original rides will always garner more money than their repro counterparts when it comes to selling time and rightly so. So the logical argument goes that when it comes to building one, they will also cost more than their repro counterparts due to their scarcity. This usually rings true but not always and here is why.

The quality of reproduction bodies has never been better, so market force dynamics dictates that if a product is of high quality that, that quality should be reflected in the price. The argument also goes that to create that product, considerable time, money and effort must be used, it's really quite logical.

Most reproduction bodies are based on the most sought after original styles such as roadsters and coupes that have become very rare. The assumption goes that if you do not have the funds to acquire an original coupe or roadster body, then a repro version is the next best thing. But how cheap is a repro body, here in Oz, a glass 28 to 34 closed body is usually around the nine to ten grand mark. Open bodies are usually a grand less.

While original 32 to 34 coupe and roadster bodies are going worth anywhere from 20 to 30 grand, a repro steel version seems to be the same price. If the argument is that repro is always cheaper than original, than clearly that argument is becoming obsolete. If new steel body is better quality than an original, it only stands to reason that its price will reflect its quality and that in turn will override the value of an original version.

Of course this can be seen as a generalisation but I know there are exceptions to the rule. In the case of my own project, a 34 Chev sedan that I am converting into a two door coach. this body style is available in glass over here, they retail around the nine grand mark. At the same time I have seen origional 34 Chev bodies being sold for far less in recent times.

I was lucky enough to get my body for next to nothing, $100, that was the cost of transporting it back to my place. The body itself cost me nothing, as the owner of the land said that I could have it.

Having said that you could argue, that, that never happens, well in my case my first 34 Chev Coupe ute project was free as well, along with a 37 Ford Cab that I later sold for $400. The transportation of both was free as well because the guy who was collecting them was given two sets of early stub axles by me in exchange because they were on the same proprty that the 37 cab was located on. I was given permission to take whatever I wanted from that property.

A rough 34 Oldsmobile sedan followed a few years later in the same circumstances, and the remains of another I dragged home a few years after that. In the case of the latter ones, my only expense was the recovery of the two of them. $500 for the first one and about $300 for the second one. I sold the first one on for the cost of recovery and the second one is a donor for the 34 coach body I am building at the moment.

Is it luck or determination that has enabled me to acquire these original rare bodies ? Its a bit of both, but when it really boils down to it, the five examples that I outlined cost me a total of $800 minus the $400 I made on the 37 cab minus the $500 I made back on the 34 Oldesmobile. So in effect all were free.

Getting back to the cost of a repro body, it would cost me at least nine grand to buy one and probably another grand in transportation. Being new, preparation would be minimal but that advantage would be lost in the outlay. Because this body that I am building up has cosst me nothing that means I have an extra nine grand to put into its construction, in theory at least.

In summing up original steel bodies have never been harder to find then they are now but at the same time repro bodies have never been better quality than they are and therefore more expensive. So the two kind of cancel each other out.

My other point is that if you can not afford a highly desirable original body or an accurate repro version there are other options. Look at cheaper four door sedans as an alternative for your dream ride, get the skills and materials to convert them into tudors, coupes, roadsters or pickups. There are plenty of examples being posted up on the threads here everyday.

Anyway I am keen to hear what others think about this topic. This was not a debate about which one is the better of the two, merely which one is the cheaper. So let me know what you think.

Cheers !

 

You can't generalize it, The market is not large enough sample size like you'd find on an avg consumer product.

Glass or repo cars will always have a stigma with some buyers, others won't care. Generally the folks that are most offended by repo bodies are also the one with original sheetmetal cars that spent untold hours restoring them, lots of money to buy them, or have owned them for 20+years. My guess the resentment would be the repo body owners didn't earn it like they had to.
The buyers for repo or glass cars want a done car, with less wait, the level of finish of that car varies widely. Some are great others a step away from junk.

Too many variables. If you're marketing or producing repo, put out the best product you can, expect a very long tooling payoff, expect to hold a lot of inventory.

Not sure where your post is going, just some of my thoughts. Hopefully it doesn't piss anyone off too much.

 

Some of us don't like new stuff, we have to have original metal. But there are folks who don't like old stuff, they want all new metal. Strange, but true. I think that's why the steel repro body business is doing so well.

 

These discussions will go on to eternity. I've got Henry body '40 Ford (I guess you would call that "real") and a Wescott bodied '32 Roadster. Sure, I would love to have a Henry '32 but by the same token I wouldn't mind having a repro steel '40 Coupe from Carpenter by way Drake. I enjoy both cars and really don't concern myself too much with the value of either.

 

I actually prefer original steel myself, but there are times where I wish I could source more repro parts for my project. When it comes to reproduction I also prefer steel to glass but that is also a flawed perception on my part. I know a lot of these repro steel bodies are being pressed up in Asia so that is also off putting. I will always try and source local over imported every time.

 

they don't reproduce the car bodies i like..........

 

I work in purchasing and we have a common term, TCO or total cost of ownership. It includes all of the costs to have a finished product in your hands. In a case like this, you could have 3,000.00 original body that needs 12,000.00 worth of patch panels, wood kits and body work to be considered "done" or you can get a new 14,000.00 repo body that needs only 1,000.00 of prep work to be consided "done"
I guess its all up to the owner and that initial spend.

 

We have both steel and fiberglass "traditional" pre 1950 cars. Don't think much about the value cause they are family and never sold.
We drive and enjoy them.
I like both. But the glass bodies can be more affordable. Especially by those without such big budgets - making the hobby affordable for more folks...

 

There are many variables to this debate. Expense, time, knowledge, and skill are just a few. Some can "throw" a car together with minimal time and money because of experience and parts available to them. Others need to pay someone to put a 1 800 buy a rod car together for them. I prefer the original tin. The hunt for those elusive parts is half the fun!

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You can wait for a great original car to come along, buy a beat up one and fix it, or buy repo. Youre gonna be about the same money all around by the time it's driving.

Original steel will always have a greater appeal.

Being in AUS, you have a lot tighter registration standards, be sure you have that covered before going with a repo body.

 

One saves time, the other saves money. Which do you have the most of?

 

Cheer up, I hear plans for a re-pop AMC Pacer are in the works!
Sorry couldn't resist!

 

I passed on a titled 29 original Henry roadster body about four years ago. It sold on auction site for three grand. I probably could have got it cheaper. At that moment I wasn't in the mood to do rust work. So I bought a Brookville body. I'm going to have a great deal of work in this body. Whoever built this body had absolutely no pride in their workmanship. When I ordered this body I made an assumption that things would go faster ,it being new sheet metal and all. NOT! I've accepted the fact that I have to rework this body. In hindsight I probably would have been happier with that henry body because I could see what it needed and my frame of mind would have accepted that. When you spend seven grand on a new body and you get something that needs a ton of work it's hard to get your mind right. Between the body and the chassis (not Brookville) I'm struggling to get to the point of forward progress. Didn't mean to get off on this little rant, The point is I would probably make some different decisions if I could do it over again. Bill

 

Several years ago Industrial Chassis built a 34 pu for me completely out of individual parts I gathered , mostly on the HAMB website. By picking each individual part separately you can try to get the best cleanest example available, i.e. the best off many many cars rather than being stuck with the warts and the lipstick of a complete car. Most fun I ever had going to swaps and watching the for sales on here.
Still couldn't have gotten safety and quality without some of the new repros I bought. New Bed, new lincoln brakes, T-5 etc.

 

I am part of the Hoi poloi in society. We don't always have the resources (money, time, skills) to do what it takes to build a car we can enjoy and have some pride in.
If I had the skills, time, and money to do a vintage bodied hot rod, I would, in a heartbeat, but I don't.
For the last couple of weeks I have been prepping my "32" for paint. It's a fiberglass repop made by New Age Motorsports in Monroe Connecticut. The quality is very good for what it is. I have been block sanding the body, aligning the doors and trunk lid, trying to get good body lines, and gaps.
I hope when all is said and done I will have a nice looking representation of a 1932 Ford Roadster hot rod.
As far as value, well, it will be priceless.... to me!
I will probably never sell it as I don't get rid of my "collector" cars they are part of who I am. They will be passed down to my Son and Daughter when I'm gone!
I feel very Blessed to have what I have regardless of their origin.
KK

 

Hoi poloi ^^^, but yeah, me too

 

I look at it two ways. One is that if I get a repop body it will or should require less work to become a good body. No patching etc.

If you are building a show car new is the way to go but if you are building a beater old is it. The fit andfinish is just different on a new body.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

AND if you can get the new car/body titled as a year of manufacture. Or would you have to title it as a 2016 and meet emissions.

 

Another point to be made, if you don't mind building a car that is something other than a ford, you can save a ton on the original purchase but the end price will usually be less too. I've seen several 32 to 34 chevys for sale for a tenth of what they would have been worth if they were a ford.

 

I've built and owned both. Never started with a complete car in the over 40 turnkeys I've built. If building original I always tried to gather the best parts available for the build. I've slipped a few times and let my emotions over rule my pocket book but it's always turned out ok. I have enjoyed doing the 5 or 6 Brookville roadsters I've built and felt they were a great value for the money. I just sold a friend a Brookville 32 3 window body and feel it's a great value compared to what originals are bringing. I still like the fact that my 6 deuces both finished and unfinished are built using original tin but I've probably paid a price for having them?

 

Well here's a good topic to add another thought process into the mix. I'd like to pick a HAMB friendly car but it might be tough. Lets go with a 64 Ford Thunderbolt Fairlane. Your weird and eccentric uncle Melvin bought it new and hardly used it. Raced for a while, bought another racer and parked this one in his storage shed with the dirt floor. A generation later he went on to his reward, and being a bachelor he never married or had kids so he left it to you. Sadly that dirt floor garage took it's toll on the car's substructure. Poor thing has no miles on it but she rotted out under the floors and subrails. He was pretty slick about everything else, motor wasn't stuck, a few things needed attention, and he even kept every piece of paper from time slips to gas receipts, obviously including the sales invoice when he bought it. Now it needs to be restored so you have a couple of choices. You can score an identical generic version Arizona body shell and mod the spring towers like DST did, salvage all of your interior, gauges, mechanicals, pretty much the car's soul. Is it still "real"? The other option is replace all the rotten steel with imported patch panels and such, using all the curse words they deserve because they're junk. Too thin, dirty sheet steel alloy, fit just sucks, but in some folk's minds it's the only way to keep it real. My position is that if I were able to score an exact bare shell that was built by Ford Motor Company and RESTORE my prize by doing it the way Ford did it then my car is more correct, the REAL thing, and I have every document in the world to prove it. Some would call that fraud. Why? Where does the car begin? Where does it end? You could pick any number of cars, O/T or HAMB friendly, that could end up that way. If Uncle Melvin's car is back with all of it's OG stuff and a proper Ford shell, is it real, a clone, a perfect restoration or a fraud? And why? Where does it end up if it were cobbled back together with import patch panels and floors?
I'm not promoting either way or approach, and no doubt some cars can end up in that scenario. "Real" is such a relative term, and with our beloved Fords of the 30s there's some stuff out there new that should help. I have a set of "new" 33 Ford fenders for a client's car here. Hate em. They're so light I can curl them with my fingers. I rolled a dent out of one of em with my fuckin thumbs! I spoke with a very astute parts man that said they would have cost about $5.00 more per fender to make em out of the heavier steel. AND, the curve where it meets the running board in nowhere near correct and took a couple dozen hours of cutting and fitting to make them right. I guess only your hair dresser knows for sure...? So what's real, what's not, where does our car begin or end? I'm looking forward to your answers.

 

It's John Locke's Socks. philosophical theory. Heres the definition from the internets;


"John Locke proposed a scenario regarding a favorite sock that develops a hole. He questioned whether the sock would still be the same after a patch was applied to the hole. If yes, then, would it still be the same sock after a second patch was applied? Indeed, would it still be the same sock many years later, even after all of the material of the original sock has been replaced with patches?"

I think all the rides on this sight qualify to be a sock, old steel, new steel or glass. They all have heart.

 

Build whatever you like and have fun with it. Make it a reflection of yourself. Take your time. Stay up late, trying to get her to run right. Work extra hours on the job, to have cash for the swapmeet. Search for just the right parts to get her done. Hang out with your buddies, who also have the same interest. Digging the good times. Get your ego stroked at every stop for fuel. Smile from ear to ear, as you motor around among the masses. When you park it, after a great day of cruising, turn around and smile because she's yours.

Now, was I talking about a reproduction or an original? See, in the grand scheme of things, that "real, not real" shit, is just a bunch of shit.

 

Speaking politely at your avatar, why can't we have both? Like booze or religion, some of the shit from the bunch is fine in moderation.

 

Highlander: Always like your insights and your real life experience. With regard to Uncle Melvin's Thunderbolt, to me it is a unique example. It is a race car, so putting the new shell with all those original parts would not offend anyone execpt the true purist. Race cars are inherently prone to upgrades and repairs. On the other hand not correctly restoring an historic road car such as the Lloyd Bakan coupe would be considered sacrilegious. However at the end of the day just enjoying old iron is what it is all about, whether you built it or bought it! Thanks. TEB

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In regards to the post...... Yes- had an OG Henry that needed everything......Skill, Labor, and $ outlay to make it come to fruition. And with no specific history documentation, just another "one of those".... So- without the BS/Drama..... By the time it left my hands, I was 2G's into the same body, minus all the work, and I have something that's new...... Now- I'm so ahead of the (my) game. Call it self satisfaction. I know the rules/meaning here, and totally am with it immensely....
I guess I'm saying, is that when I'm driving down the road, enjoying my car, and not giving a F about the world, I could care less what people say/think. You want OG=COOL, A LOT do, and I follow their endevors.
Come's down to all I mentioned above^.....
Would I like to have an OG? =Sure!
Time/space and some skill are the killers..... Yes- don't want cobbled, or half assed.
SO- I bit the bullet, and well..... I will be driving sooner than later..... Rant/Opinion....Nothing more/Nothing less.......
Whatever works for anyone.........

 

It has been interesting reading through all the comments and one thing it has shown me is that there is no right or wrong. In my case original steel was way cheaper than repro. Had I settled on a 32 Ford, the opposite may very well have been the case. When it boils down to it you don't know how much your project will cost until you are ready to get the final engineers inspection. I have been told by a guy that has worked in the restoration industry for decades that putting a body together costs tens of thousands of dollars, by the time you factor in paint and panel work, upholstery and trim. Then on the other hand I hear about guys who put together their whole ride for a few grand because they spent a couple of decades collecting parts, tools and skills and combining all three. In my case I hope that my project meets somewhere in the middle because at the moment I have the parts but not much of the latter two and as far as the money goes well that is non existent at least at the moment, well at least I have the parts !

 

I am in the process of eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on a hamburger bun. There is definitely a right and wrong way, but sometimes you just have to make do with what you got.

I think in our world you have to take a step back and see what you're lookin' at. There actually is a right and wrong way depending on your situation and your end game. @theHIGHLANDER builds very high end restorations, he has to adhere to a very tight set of parameters to do this. If he does not choose the correct parts or strays an iota in any direction he didn't get it right.

There is obviously a right and wrong way to build a Ridler quality car if there was not they would all win. There can be only one.

When it comes to us there are basically two schools of thought. The absolute traditional cars really fall into Highlander's realm. Every bit and piece has to be correct all the way down to the smallest detail. Even patch panels need to be cut from an original car if there are no NOS panels to be had.


The other school of thought is that traditional-ish is good enough. Close is cool in this category. Then there is still a right and wrong way. The right way is my way, or yours. You make yourself happy with it, original steel, glass, repop steel, whatever you are comfortable with or can afford or find is good enough for you, maybe I won't like it but who really cares, you build it and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Bringing this back to the cost aspect...you can buy a new mostly complete 55 chevy sedan or hardtop body for about $20k. You can also buy a pretty darn solid, complete, driving, relatively nice 55 chevy for about $20k. In this case, buying a new body is not very cost effective for most folks.

32 fords, the story is different. You can buy new stuff for far less than you can buy nice old metal for.

So the answer is, "it depends". Doesn't matter which is "right" or if there even is a right way to do it. If you are looking to build an early Ford, new stuff may be more cost effective. If you are looking to drive a neat old car like a 55 Chevy, it would be far more cost effective to just buy a complete old car.