Customs 1960 Edsel making grinding noises from differential - 2 minute video...

It started making some really loud grinding noises from the rear axle last night so I removed the axle shafts this morning and started it up and held my iPhone back there. Any idea what's the cause? Junkyard Jeff has agreed to come back down from Dayton again (because he's a great mechanic and I'm not) so let me know what you think may be the problem. Thanks....

 

That sucks buddy. Id be pulling the third member out about right now. Sounds like the bearing went bad and it is starting to eat up the ring and pinion. Id go ahead and plan for an overhaul, or start looking for a good used third member. should be a nine inch but some Edsels had a 9 3/8 or 9 1/2 or something like that. just verify what you have first before you buy anything.

 

I would say, that sounds bad. but I would be lying.

Is it a constant grinding or does it happen at a specific time like when speeding up or slowing down?

 

+1. Pull the third member out and check it. I bet you find bad bearings and R&P damage.

 

grab the driveshaft at the back end, see if you can wiggle it. If you can, is the pinion yoke moving around also?

my 59 had a loose pinion nut...although it needed a seal too, so I just pulled out the pinion support, replaced the seal, crush sleeve, and O ring. $10 for the parts from summit, although they'll also get you that much again for shipping.

The 60 edsel had a 9" rear, not the bigger one. That was a 58 only feature on the Citation and Corsair, eh?

 

I assume you have ruled out a U-joint being worn and the noise is just the driveshaft flopping in the yoke.

Since no noise when diff was not turning, and noise when you put in gear without axles, obviously something in the third member. Not that it really matters, but you will be pulling the third member out to fix whatever the problem is. My guess is lost a bearing. Subsequent damage will be dependent on how bad the bearing is.

 

OK I couldn't get the vid to play hence my first post. Anyway I am reposting the vid. Hope you don't get mad at me about that.




My first thought is that it sounds like a garage band.LOL

I you may try wiggling the pinion shaft but no matter what you are going to have to get in there and it is most likely a carrier bearing.

 

be careful...those 3 legged pressed steel jackstands can be killers!

 

Yes they can.

@Lebowski love the vid man, you have proven that you are or would be considered to be normal in this house hold. You're alright.

Correct me if I am wrong. The Edsel used the same rear as a ford from the era? IE drop out chuck either 8.75 or 9"ring gear? That being the case and I think that it is your best cheapest rebuild parts for it are going to come from the local dirt track store. Example: last I checked from my favorite catalog speed shop was around 130 cost from the local dirt track store 89. Hope that is of some help to you.

 

Not good..... If you can find a good used pumpkin, that will probably be the cheapest fix.

 

Aside from the noisy rear end.. the car looks really slick. always loved those taillights.

 

you guys sure like spending his money!

Years ago, a friend had a ford van that was making an awful noise, he wanted the trans replaced. I stuck another trans in it, no change...so I looked at the rearend, the pinion yoke was moving all over the place. Pulled the pinion support, replaced the bearings, and it worked fine.

Before saying it's the end of the world, at least look and see what the problem is.

 

Hey I supposed to say that.

 

yep

 

Yes, it's constant. I talked to Jeff tonight and he said I should look for another 9" rear end. I couldn't find any in the Louisville Craigslist but he may know of one in Dayton. Mine has a 3:56 gear in it but he said anything between that and 3:10 would work. Does anyone know of one for sale within a 2 hour drive of Louisville?

 

I guess rearends are rocket surgery...oh well.

 

On the other hand, just run it again, (right side was strongest) add some guitar, good bass, and woodwinds...('kettle drum & floor tom' sound coming out would dictate Alto or Soprano sax)
My first boss would say, "That thing's making more noise than a jackass in a tin barn!"

Agree with the boys that say "Take a closer look!" DO crawl under (watch the stands!) and wiggle the driveshaft (up and down, firmly)
Any movement? Look at the flange the driveshaft is bolted to.
As Jim (Squirrel) pointed out, the nut may have loosened.

 

I normally have a spare around but they are almost always airplane gears and I am a ways off for ya.

I would take a good look at it I first, you can repair the one that you got and do it all on the bench. between us we can get you through it, after you don't understand everyone else I can tell you the back door way to do it. I'll probably call you a bad name before you're done, but you're Mountain Folk, you can take it. One of us will say it in a way that you understand, and its really no harder than changing your engine. You got to pull the chuck to change it lets fix it while you got it out.

Ok so much for the pep talk. Keep us posted

 

Lookin' for a donor 9" for my Ford as well. Prices are fairly astronomical for a used piece that I'm going to change to a posi with a new R & P anyway. I'm keeping the stock 3.56 rear untouched. It has slop in the pinion otherwise seems fine.

Scout around some truck junkyards. Old Econolines and F100s had 9" pumpkins in steeper ratios, 3.55 and up. Yours should have a 1310 yoke on it (u-joint measures 3.218" across the cups, cups are 1.062 in diameter). The yokes come in a couple of different lengths.

 

Good point about the yoke, most centers you find will have something different, and you'll have to play surgeon anyways.

 

yep and its not like you can just change the yolk. Changing the yolk requires a new crush sleeve at the very least. (well we are talking my stuff here perhaps). if you find one that the length is good width or U joint size really doesn't matter that is what bastard joints are for.

Tell you what would be excellent here, if @Lebowski crawled under there and found the U joint trashed.

 

It only takes a few minutes to pull the pinion assembly; bet you could see all kinds of fun stuff then.

 

I jacked up the car another 4" or so and went under there but didn't see anything wrong with the U joint. There is very little free play in the driveshaft. Also, after I jacked it up higher I put an additional 3 legged jack stand on the right side. The one on the left is an old style one from about 40 years ago and very strong. After I lowered the car onto the stands I left the 3 ton floor jack under the differential just to be on the safe side.

My wife wants me to take it to a shop in Louisville and let them fix it. If I did should I go to a transmission shop like Aamco or can anyone recommend a place to take it? I would have to rent a trailer from U-Haul if I went that route.

By the way, Beaner, the previous owner of this car (age 89) who had all the restoration work done on it is from Linn, MO. Is that anywhere near you?

 

Its about 4 hours from here. They used to have an excellent tech school there. I lived a little closer when I lived in the Ozarks.

I can't recommend a shop for you locally, wherever you go you have to make sure that they know that you know that it is just a Ford. Don't let them give you an Edsel price in a Ford world. Most shops will try.

I know that I got an odd mindset but I still think that you can do it. its just a damned old car. ( @squirrel a little help here)

 

You can do as suggested above, and remove the pinion support. It is held in with 5 bolts. There is oil in the rear, you have to drain that first so you don't make a mess, there might be a drain plug under the middle of the housing, 3/8" internal square, you can use a 3/8" ratchet to remove it (if it's not stuck too tight).

Remove the driveshaft by taking the nuts off the U bolts, be careful not to let the caps fall off the U joint. When you pull out the driveshaft, oil will come out the transmission, so put a drain pan under it to catch the oil.

After you've drained the rear, remove the 5 bolts that hold on the pinion retainer (the forward most part of the rear end). Carefully knock it loose and remove it. There's an O ring around it that will stick and make it hard to remove, and also there are one or two steel shims between the retainer, and the main center housing. Be careful not to bend the shims, or lose them, they are important!

Once you get the pinion assembly out, you can see if the pinion bearings are bad, or see if the ring and pinon gears look chewed up, etc. Also, if you take that part out first, then removing the center section will be easier since it will weigh less.

If you want to remove the whole center section instead, you can take off the 10 nuts that hold it on, then spend some time prying off the copper washers from each stud. The center will then come off, may take some prying. It has a gasket between it and the main housing. No shims to worry about.

 

Mix metaphors much???

 

I'm not the first!

 

I may just buy a completed posi pumpkin with what I want instead of doing a mix and match after the fact.

 

You're a ways off and shipping would kill us but I would keep an eye open if you want. if you got a rear you can buy a Detroit new reasonable and not have to rebuild it. You still got to set the rear up but if you don't have the pieces cheap close at hand it is a good way to go. Detroit makes posis as well as lockers.

 

OK, I'm going to open it up and see what it looks like. I already jacked up the front end and put the tires on my big set of ramps so the front end is about 8" off the ground now and about level with the back end. I'm going to borrow 4 jack stands from my neighbor and put them under the car just to be safe. I'll report back later today and if I see something that doesn't look right I'll take a pic or two. Thanks for the encouragement....