Lord knows there are more "How do I channel my coupe" threads here than anything else, and I've looked through what seems to be all of them. But even after staring at countless pictures and reading posts, I'm still a little confused. In the process of channeling my 31A and stuck at the subframe/floor. I was planning on taking the body off and building the subframe first. After that... Do I weld the subframe right into the body? If so, do I just weld right into the body sheet metal? I see most people weld into the old subframe, but that is almost 6 inches below the frame, and I don't really see how welding to that would work. So confused, any advice is very welcome. Thanks!
No. You don't want to do that for a street car. You'll want to plan your channel around using some sort of spacer, be that wood, rubber, or poly. Otherwise you're going to have a rough ride not to mention a hell of a time making any repairs or changes down the line. 6" is a pretty deep channel. With half-inch spacers, you're going to get about 5.5" Subframes are indeed a bit dizzying at first, I can relate, I just had to make one from scratch. My suggestion, If you've got the stock one and you want it below the frame (I haven't done this but this was my plan before I decided not to channel): Put the subframe up on a table and fasten it down. Then put your frame on top of it and get it spaced and lined up where you want it. If it needs to go higher than sitting flush to the existing subframe, use steel spacers to raise it. If you have to cut to accomplish this, cut. If you're going for a channel just at or below the frame rail, you can go ahead and tack once you've got it exactly where it needs to go (this is temproary) If you need to drop the bottom of the body lower and use tubing to raise the frame, tack the tubing or blocks to the subframe then to the frame once it's located precisely. either way you get this set, once it is set, you can build the channel drop up from the subframe and over the top of the frame (allowing for wood/poly spacers). Make sure you clear what you need to clear and support what you need to support (follow the existing crossmembers).
Weld the body's original bottom edge, and the door posts and other INSIDE structural members to your new SUBFRAME. Not to the frame itself. Never weld to the middle of a body skin panel. It WILL come back and haunt you as waves and cracks in the finished panel after driving it a bit. Most guys, when channelling a car, will set a new piece of 16 gauge sheetmetal broke into an upside down L on the rails of the frame and attach the downward legs to the cut edge of the old subframe. Some guys build a grid of small tubing and weld that to the body, then skin it with 18 gauge for a floor.
I definitely plan on using soft spacers when its all setup and ready to bolt down. Not sure I understand putting the subframe under the frame. How would I ever get the body off? Or am I misunderstanding? My original plan was to build a grid of small tubing and skin it with sheet metal. The main question is was where should I be welding the tubing to, to attach the subframe to the body. There doesn't seem to be much in terms of structural members inside the car where the new floor needs to be; thats why i wasn't sure about where to weld. The door posts seem to be mostly woodCan the tubing grid (subframe) be welded to the body skin panels? Sorry, i'm still just as confused as I was
Chen: IF...you were starting with a stock body with complete floor, what would you do first? Remove part of the floor, leaving the subrail intact. I believe some, or maybe most cars have lost even the subrail. I would prefer leaving it in place and try spreading the body to drop it over the frame. I suppose some parts of the subrail may have to go but just imagine how nice it would be to maintain the door opening while channeling the body. Admittedly, I've not channeled a body but I have un--channeled two '34 ford's. Principal is the same. Is you car's floor and subrail's still intact? or is the picture above of your car? Some will dis-agree with my method, I have just tried explaining it this way to maybe bring a little clarity to the process for you. Tim
How much of your original subframe is left? We like pictures. And, the lower portions of the door jambs of a Model A are made of plenty of steel to weld the new subframe to. The wood in there is more for nailing upholstery to in those lower halves.
If I had a sub frame and it was intact I would move it up and weld it back in place. The subframe sets on the frame doesn't it? If I didn't have a sub frame I would build my frame work inside the body and weld it in place, I would avoid welding to the body panels like Alchemy has already suggested. Where it becomes tricky is if you plan on putting a roll bar or cage in and think that someday you may want to remove the body. But that is a different discussion isn't it.
How about some pictures of one done, without an interior in it so we can see what needs to be done. Or some in progress build pictures.
Once your new structure is built and sturdy, you would cut the original subframe crossmembers along the frame so you can lift the whole thing off. This could get a little tricky if the body is on and you can't just flip the thing over. You would be attaching your tubing to the crossmembers. BUT, unfortunately I really don't have enough familiarity with the relationship between a Model A frame and its subframe to really give you much to go on. I've got a T on an A frame. That would have required a lot of trimming of the front subframe, which may need to happen with an A as well to do it that way. Finding info on channeling is surprisingly difficult; it seems everybody has a different approach. It occurs to me that if you strip it down to the subframe and frame, bolted together, that viewed from below (or flipped over), everything the frame covers will need to not be there.
So to further confuse this all, if you only weld the subframe to structural buts of the body how do you seal the space between the subframe and the body now?
Have you seen these Photo's ? Remember, your not building a Freight Train. Henry did it all in sheet metal for a reason. Don't over kill like so many do. Keep it simple and get it done. Notice I turned the cross channel up side down. No need for Wood blocks now, or any blocks for that matter. Just use factory welting and move on. NO it won't ride rough, that's what the springs are for, adjust them as needed after the car is done. Still Confused? By the way, that's a Full 6" channel. The Wizzard
I'll also add this, You should Pinch the frame rails behind the B post and clip the ends off rear crossmember to drop the body. Enough said.
Ok so you don't want to weld the sub frame to the panels because with the weld as the bend it would dance. With the L welded to the panel and then to the subframe the bend is metal and won't fatigue and move like a weld may
Some over complicated advice.... Keep it simple... As mentioned here, the OG ford sub rails were stamped sheet metal. I'd get your body placed over the frame where you want it, like you already did in your pic. Start making the sub rail pieces one at a time, either out of bent sheet stock or rectangular tube, whatever your comfortable with, I like the tube because you can make body mounts easily by simply making a large diameter hole on the top surface and the mounting hole on the lower,, that way your bolt is recessed inside the tube. The first prices are the critical ones. I always start at the cowl or A pillars, connect A pillar to A pillar, than B pillar to B pillar..... Now you can make pieces to fit between the A and B pillars on each side,,, cut those pieces to the correct length and now your door gaps are done. Clear as mud...
I didn't know how to do this and just did it my way. 30 model a body and boxed 30 frame with Dagel x member. I had my frame and suspension done and cut the floor and x members out of body. Then lowered body down on jackstands to where I wanted it,about 5 inches. Welded together a subframe inside body of 1x1and 1 x 3 square stock. Welded nuts into frame,cut hole in top of subframe stock large enough for bolt head to go through and hole in bottom of stock just large enough for bolt to drop through to nut in model a frame. Placed 1/2inch rubber between with hole for bolt to go through between frame and subframe. Then welded in floor with L shape and welded the 1x 1 x braces both to body. My bolt holes in floor are 1inch and I found flat plugs of plastic that pop in, covered it with dynamat and carpet. I can access and remove plugs then undo bolts to remove the body. Have about a thousand miles on car since I finished it last summer, so far so good. If I knew how would post pics. Sorry for the poor explanation!
Hopefully this post brings poor lost souls in the same boat as me, one step closer to hot rod glory haha This is exactly what I needed to see. THANKS!! I have an idea now, will report back with how it goes. If I'm still lost, I'll come back with pics
I sure wish we had some more in progress pics. My next project will be a channeled coupster and after reading this I still don't get it, yes, a senior moment. When I was a kid we did a channel and I really don't remember how the hell we did it. I don't have the car here for reference so I'm still a little lost. This thread would be such great reference for future projects and confused old farts like me.
Glad I could simplify things for you and help a little. This Roadster isn't my first go at it. If you had No sub frame rails in the car at all I take the same basic approch. I've watched many projects like this here on the H.A.M.B. and for some reason guys seem to think they're building the Titanic. My 30 is still a work in progress. If what I have shown you helped I have many more photos and can take more. Here is what I mean by Pinch the rear of the rails and trim the ends off so body drops over. Here is one with the door open so you get an idea how that goes. Here's the floor boards in progress. Notice the flange at the kick panel edge. This is to support the upholstery panel. Here is how it looks today as a work in progress. Once done it will be full fendered as well. The Wizzard
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