Technical Double Flaring Stainless Steel Brakes Lines?

Folks, I tried using this tool to double flare SS brake lines that I purchased from Inline Tube. It did not work as it was way too hard to work with. I switched over to regular steel tubing and it flared at ease. Any idea what you guys use to double flare SS for future reference? Thanks.

 

I use a Rigid double flair kit when I have to flair stainless. I actually would use it for everything but I am too cheap to buy my own.

 

Double flare is for dead soft material, Most SS lines are 37* single flare "AN" fittings. SS tubeing is suseptable to work hardening and can/will crack at the reverse flare bend

 

I have a Mastercool hydraulic flaring kit that works pretty well. I read somewhere that it only works on annealed stainless tubing, so that is what I have always done. The hardest part is getting it clamped hard enough in the dies. It will tend to slip through because the hard stainless doesn't grip as well as mild steel.

Dave

 

Thanks for your replies.

I have been told that brake lines are 45º, AN's are 37ºs. I think that hydraulic tool is the answer. I am thinking the material I got wasn't annealed

 

I was always told stainless was single flair 37* only. Which make for a bit of a problem working with adapters to hook thing up. Just adds to the work.

 

The hydraulic flaring tool works well on annealed stainless.. An very nice to have to fab your own custom trans cooler lines an fuel lines..One of those shop tools you don't use often but does a very professional job..

 

I bought my Hiboy '31"A" roadster as an uncompleted project that had begun life as a rolling body and chassis from Brookville, and they had utilized a Pete and Jake chassis.
The brake lines were part of the work done @ P&J and are SS with 37* AN flares and alloy fittings. Had a bit of a problem with seepage at some joints, not a real leak but sort of weeping or seeping out just enough to mess up the chassis paint.
Did some research, found a "hydraulic sealant" from Permatex, approved by FAA for aircraft use and have used it. Sealant is a sort of misnomer, as it's mostly an anti seize that allows you to tighten up a bit more without galling or stripping threads and also allows the flare to slide more easily into a leak tight fit between the aluminum flare nose and the flare on the SS line. So far it seems to work.
There is also available for aircraft work a conical copper washer to fit betwwen the male and female flares to help with sealing, but so far I haven't had any more seepage where I used the "sealant" and haven't needed the conical washers.
Wish I had written down the trade name and nuber of the stuff, which is available in both a "heavy" and "medium" viscosity. But when I discussed the stuff with a pilot friend who has A&P tickets and maintains his own private light single engine plane, he already had some and gave me a small vial of each, and I don't have the Permatex number.

 

Hey buddy
That's good to know.

Not to hijack the thread here but I am thinking about using that Euro Copper brake line in this new old heap I am working on. have you played with it got good or bad words for it?

 

Probably the job I dislike the most in building a car. I seem to have a problem buying a $200 tool so I fight with an old double flaring kit from NAPA. limited success the first time.

 

Joe last I checked you could land a Rigid for less than a saw buck. If you get a chance you should give one a try.

One of the things that is poor about your cheaper double or even single flare tools is the mandrel, if the mandrel is weak they don't hold the tube well enough to get a decent flair. Another thing I have noticed the last few years is the brake line is not consistent size wise. I am wondering if we are getting a metric size instead of an SAE and trying to use an SA tool to flair it.

 

I'm seeing a lot of metric sizing in commercial plastics that we buy for military usage. What was 1/8" is now 3 mm. Of course there is size variation in almost anything made.

The Mastercool kit I used (borrowed...) on my lines worked out great, they were only the regular green-ish ones that NAPA sells.

 

Do not do a lot of dbl flare brake plumbing unless resto requires it. Most is single flare AN SS

 

All brake lines down here are mandatory DOT 45 degree double or metric flare. No 37 AN allowed on road registered cars as not DOT approved. I believe 37 AN has a higher burst pressure than 45 flare.

 

If I had to use 45* double flare, I wouldn't use SS tubing then. Does Aussy code allow the copper/nickel alloy tubing?

 

SS doesn't need double flare.

 

If you're talking AN 37* and proper fittings, I'll agree with you. But if you're talking 45* automotive fittings, then please, Here and now let's reach an agreement on how to mark vehicles receiving your work, because I want to be able to recognize and avoid being anywhere near them when they are in motion.

 

So...one guy says you shouldn't double flare stainless and one guy says you can't single flare 45 degree stainless

Well then what are these companies doing that sell stainless for a non AN situation? In other words there are plenty of companies selling stainless for oem aplications.

I have double flared stainless with a hydraulic flaring tool. By the time I was done with that car the dies were worn out and needed replaced. Just doing what the customer wanted.

I like the copper nickel lines.....you guys can have the stainless

 

As stated above dead soft stainless is what is getting double flared.

 

I have been told by suppliers that there are different wall thicknesses of 3/16 stainless tubing with the thinner being better for attempted double flaring. I have not tried this material, but would not be surprised if it needed to be annealed also. Possibly they were referring to double soft as mentioned by Roothawg.

 

That Euro Copper brake line rarely fail, it's easy to work with. It sure doesn't like over tightening. We replace them on full restos though for peace of mind, personally I've never seen any fail even on original 60+ years driver.
The main problem I've encountered with SS is slippage in the flaring tool and cracking of the cone at 45 deg then again I don't know what type of SS I was given by my boss (Stop complaining just do it )

 

I have used the steel brake line for years, don't like the cheap green tube because it likes to kink on a bend. I have used stainless when I was forced to but it is hard to work with and hard on tools. I used the copper/nickel brake line on the last one I did and it turned out great. It took about 1/2-1/3 the time. It has good corrosion resistance. Not sure why anyone would use stainless as it is a total PITA.

 

I liked the NAPA green stuff. All of my bends were done around the handle of a floor jack, nothing tight. I was going to try the copper-nickel line, but it only came in coils. In short runs it would be acceptable to me, but the un-coiled look on a longer run.. nah.

 

Primary purpose for the dbl flare is that it offers a final crush to mate to the fitting. AN spec is called out at 37* why ?? because engineers discovered that 37* is the SAFE & CONSISTANT limit to the flare without cracking.

 

I have switched to the Nickle Copper (NiCopp) line and have not looked back. Only reason I see for SS is shiny appearance. Long lengths of previously coiled NiCopp line can be straightened nicely by rolling between two pieces of plywood. Kinks in very sharp curves can be avoided with the internal glass bead packing trick, same as with steel.

 

Some builds call for stainless for historical value. I think that @dreracecar uses it a lot for two reasons one being historical value and the other is that working primarily on race cars he is using race chit, not your average backyard build.

 

I used the cupro-nickel line on my 50 Pontiac, and I really like it. I've done stainless on my race car stuff and steel line on regular projects. I've got a nice Ridgid 45 degree flare tool and an Imperial 37 degree set with rollers in the cone. Both work fine. I also have an old military surplus Kent-Moore 37 degree set that uses a cone driven by impact (hammer) that does a really nice job also. The big key it seems to me is to deburr the inside of the tubing a little with a Weldon type single flute countersink, and inspect the flare carefully after it's done.

 

Referencing Aeroman's original post: As any career politician would say, I can neither confirm or deny this, but two knowledgeable individuals have told me the Inline Tube flaring tool is a knock off/clone of the German Rothenberber tool. This may account for some subtle differences that are giving you problems. I use the Rothenberger on the copper/nickel line with great results. Also a little wipe with wading polish and its brilliant looking. I have a recent thread on an easy way to cut this line which might be helpful to those using this type tubing.

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Here is a photo of the Rothenberger and tubing.

 

I was able to get the copper/nickel lines in premade lengths same as steel at a local auto parts store