Technical Help tinkering on an old 6V F-1

Hello,

First off I'm not very knowledgeable or experienced in mechanical things, but it doesn't seem to stop me from playing... it just stops me from succeeding at it.

Ive been tinkering with an old 51 Ford F1 with a flathead v8 in an effort to get it running well enough to drive it the 5 back road miles from my fathers house to my house. Im mostly just playing and not actually trying to get it road ready or anything. Yet

The issue I'm having right now is the old 6v system, which according to my father hasn't had enough power to start it without a 12v boost since the 1960s. I bought a new 6v battery for it and never could get it to fire on it. Since then the battery has gotten older and weaker. I know I likely need a starter rebuild and some heavier gauge cables for it, as well as a new battery, but in the mean time just out of curiosity I decided to try wiring up a 12v battery on a secondary system to run just the starter and leave the 6v for everything else. So I grabbed an old 6v solenoid I had lying around and bolted it beside the original one, moved the starter button wire to the from little terminal on the original to the new solenoid, hooked up the starter cable and battery cables so that the new secondary setup matches the original one exactly, except only the 12v setup is hooked to the starter and every non starter wire is hooked up to the original 6v location. I then hooked up the 12v battery as a positive ground, hooked up the 6v as a positive ground, and it fired up fine and ran fine(ish). I putted around the yard for 5 minutes, shut it off and tried to restart it and the 12v battery was dead. I pulled the cables off the batteries and checked the tightness of all the cables, then when I went to hook it all back up the 12v battery kept sparking at me as though I was hooking them up wrong. I said "huh?" and tapped the "new" solenoid with a wrench..... because I couldn't think of anything else to do to fix it, and randomly the cables went back on without sparking.

So I am wondering from those who actually know the proper way, just how wrong is this setup? Is there a reason my 12v battery would be draining that fast? A good 12v should be able to fire it up more than twice before going flat. Granted, that 12v may not be that good.

Also can you think of any reason why the battery would temporarily decide to spark? Is the way I have it set up somehow still connecting both the 6v and 12v circuits?

Thanks for any insights you may have and Im sorry for tarnishing your excellent forum with my idiocy

Dan

 

It sounds like the new solenoid was stuck. it happens some times. Tapping it with the wrench may have unstuck it.

If you did hook the 12V and the 6 volt systems together, the 12V battery will discharge through the 6 volt battery with possibly dangerous speed. (By Ohms law current = Volts/Resistance =( 12V-6V)/~0 ohms =Boom)

You should just add a current limiting resistor to your coil and change over to the 12 volt battery.
Battery isn't going to charge off the generator without a little more work, but it will start, run, and drive just fine.
It's an easy conversion and it drives the starter faster making cold weather starts easier

 

I would have figured that if the solenoid was stuck it would be engaging the starter? Ive had that happen a few times on another truck I have. Perhaps it was partially stuck somehow?

Ive thought about adding a resistor, but I had all of the parts to make the above set up work (if it WAS working). Ill try free options first. I at some point would like to get the 6v setup working, but I dont have any funds to spare at the moment. Or I could just do a full on 12v conversion, but again, funds arent plentiful.

I also read a small write up on hooking up a secondary 12v setup with its own push button that can be used in tandem with the 6v setup so that if the 6v is acting up you can give it a quick bump with the 12v.

Thanks

 

My old Ford truck came with a 6-12 battery, had a solenoid on top of the battery that switched from parallel to series for cranking and would charge from the 6 volt system in parallel. I believe they are still available.

 

Yes you will meed 6V cables to carry the amperage. Clean and wire brush every connection in the starter system including the grounds. Clean the battery cables even if new. 6V systems are much more critical to dirty connections than 12V systems. Get the cables from an old Ford parts store to get the proper Ga cables.

 

Just to add. The starter grounds to the engine. If there is paint or dirt between the starter and the engine it could hinder the ground connection. Unbolt the starter and remove it. Clean both surfaces and put the starter back on.

As mentioned, large battery cables (2/0 - 00 welding cable works very well) and clean connections, especially grounds. The 6volt system will work very well then.

 

I did manage to get it to fire once on the 6v battery when I first bought and installed it. But I think it had been sitting on the shelf for so long that it wasnt tip top. That was three years ago, and the battery is weak now according to my tester. For battery cables I have what I think are 2 gauge (not big enough, but not terrible and they were free). Its grounded to the block, then I grounded it again to the frame, then again to the firewall. I have a brand new 00 gauge cable from the solenoid to the starter. I had originally planned on picking up new 00 battery cables and grounding straight to the starter mounting bolt which I understand makes it work much better. But after factoring in the cost of having the cables made (around $50 at the local ag store) plus a new battery ($130) and likely a new starter ($200+), I figured Id just "band-aid" the issue until I can get the truck running well enough to warrant the expense. I still have to get the brakes functional, replace the fuel pump, plug wires and clean up/replace the old Lodge plugs that have been in it since the 60s when my Grandpa put the engine in it. I have it running not too bad considering we all thought it was seized for the last 12 years.

 

MAKE SURE NNOTHING IS ON. TAKE CABLE, EITHER ONE, OFF. CHARGE BATTERY, TOUCH REMOVED CABLE BACK ONTO THE BATTERY TERMINAL, WATCH FOR ANY SPARK, IF THERE IS, SOMETHING IS MAKING A CIRCUIT. IF YOU PREFER, USE A TEST LIGHT BETWEEN CABLE AND BATTERY, IF LIGHT COMES ON YOU HAVE A UNWANTED COMPLETE CIRCUIT. IN AN OLD VEHICLE YOU PROBABLY HAVE AN INSULATION PROBLEM WHERE THE WIRES GO THROUGH THE BODY. IN THAT CASE YOU WILL PROBABLY HAVE A BIG SPARK . ONE OLD FORD I WAS WORKING ON HAD A BAD HORN RELAY WIRE GROUNDING IN THE IN THE STEERING COLUME CAUSING THE HORN RELAY TO STAY ON HORNS WERE NO GOOD SO DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS A PROBLEM GOOD LUCK

 

Fiddler, you may be right on that. I know the horns are disconnected on mine, so that could be the exact issue. It looks like Ill have to do some chasing. Wiring is not my strong suit. And I thought I was so clever for getting it all to work. Must be a loose or bare wire grounding out somewhere and messing things up.